9/11

[Nippy x3]

I know its been I think 7 years? But, I always think of 9/11. I truly believe that God used this disaster as movement to bring ppl together. My teacher in when I was in 5th grade mentioned 9/11 and how she was the only Christian in her family of 7 and how she prayed for years that her family could know Christ. She told us how her brother went to New York for a business trip at the twin towers and 5 mintues before the strike he had left the building becuase he had heard some voice tell him to leave the building for a action that's going to be used to benifit the future. 5 mintues later the terrorist hit and was amazed and started to cry and she said how he heard the voices, OMG! ppl of every building looking out there offices cars stopped and people everywhere calling 911 and family. It was like slow-motion of never replacable event. And she believes if you pray to God for him to work in someone, somewhere, somehow he will do it even if years go by.  

[moosiklady]

God uses our moments of weakness - our moments of knowing we aren't and can't be enough by ourselves to handle this world - he uses those moments to reveal Himself to us because that's when we take the time to recognize Him. For some people that may take natural or manmade disasters, but for others it's just the day to day grind.  

[divineseraph]

Disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.  

[But Be Respectful]

Quote:

disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

How are we terrorists? We don't go into someone's country and bomb them for their religious beliefs. We didn't even bomb the Soviet Union during the communist days. Therefore I ask again, how are we terrorists?

And who is "we" anyways? Is it "we" as in America? or "we" as in Christians? I'll admit, us Christians have done some pretty awful things in the past (i.e. the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades). And yes, they do hold a certain amount of comparison to the acts of Al Qaida and the Taliban, for they too were based on religious beliefs.

9/11 not a disaster? tell that to the hundred of thousands who died. tell that to their families. tell that to the soldiers who are fighting today as a result of it. Not a disaster. For heaven's sake its the worst disaster since the Atomic Bomb attacks on the Japanese (which btw was a retaliation and the quickest/less costs in life way to end the war). I bet that every person will remember exactly what they were doing when they found out about 9/11 for the rest of their lives. I sure will.

In the future, back up your statements with AT LEAST a little more detail. Preferably, with verifiable facts too.  

[divineseraph]

gatetrek

Quote:

disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

How are we terrorists? We don't go into someone's country and bomb them for their religious beliefs. We didn't even bomb the Soviet Union during the communist days. Therefore I ask again, how are we terrorists?

And who is "we" anyways? Is it "we" as in America? or "we" as in Christians? I'll admit, us Christians have done some pretty awful things in the past (i.e. the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades). And yes, they do hold a certain amount of comparison to the acts of Al Qaida and the Taliban, for they too were based on religious beliefs.

9/11 not a disaster? tell that to the hundred of thousands who died. tell that to their families. tell that to the soldiers who are fighting today as a result of it. Not a disaster. For heaven's sake its the worst disaster since the Atomic Bomb attacks on the Japanese (which btw was a retaliation and the quickest/less costs in life way to end the war). I bet that every person will remember exactly what they were doing when they found out about 9/11 for the rest of their lives. I sure will.

In the future, back up your statements with AT LEAST a little more detail. Preferably, with verifiable facts too.

We as America. Look at Japan- Hiroshima and Nagasaki were purely terrorist attacks. How is terrorism defined? It is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We dropped a bomb in the center of civilian cities. On bridges in the center of town. Not on a military base. Our goal was to kill as many japanese civilians as possible. Why? To coerce the japanese leaders into surrender with violence an threats. And no, this was not the easiest way. Negotiations with the USSR were underfoot and Japan was on the verge of surrender. Their military force was non-existent. For the last few weeks before the bombs, pilots reported it like being on vacation- there was no resistance.

We are, historically speaking, terrorists. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were barely the tip of the iceberg. We annihilated Dresden, hundreds of villages in Vietnam and dozens of cities in japan with conventional weaponry. We've killed millions of civilians. And don't tell me that Al Queda is not in a time of war- They are fighting Isreal. We are supplying Isreal with weaponry. After, of course, initially giving Al Queda weaponry to fight puppet-wars with us against the "communists". We, basically, use them one decade, then help their enemies the next. Much like Saddam, who we aided with a coup of the Iraqi government and put into power, and even aided in a war with peaceful and soverign nations. (See Iran) and then turned against when he went for a nation we owned oil stocks in (See Kuwait).

And hundreds of thousands? We lost no more than five thousand in 9/11. This is a paltry sum, considering our military actions in the past. We deserve at least another 49 9/11's to be equal to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, let alone the other cities we've decimated. Unless, of course, Japanese lives are less human and hold some sort of lesser value that good ol' American lives. Even then, I would think the japanese aren't worth only 1/50 of an American.

So. 9/11? It was nothing. If you want to be upset about a loss of life, protest the American Military. Which, by the way, killed more civilians in the subsequent bombings of Afghani villages than we lost in 9/11.  

[rillegas08]

divineseraph

And don't tell me that Al Queda is not in a time of war- They are fighting Isreal. We are supplying Isreal with weaponry. After, of course, initially giving Al Queda weaponry to fight puppet-wars with us against the "communists". We, basically, use them one decade, then help their enemies the next. Much like Saddam, who we aided with a coup of the Iraqi government and put into power, and even aided in a war with peaceful and soverign nations. (See Iran) and then turned against when he went for a nation we owned oil stocks in (See Kuwait).

You're ignoring a huge fact here. You're forgetting that they were America's allies against communism. Once communism fell, they decided to use the weapons and knowledge they had gained from the Americans to try and destroy Israel, like Middle Easterners have been trying to do since Joshua led the Israelites into the Promised Land. After WWII, America became Israel's ally. When they started to attack Israel, America knew it had to decide which side to be on. Since we were stronger allies with Israel then, America sided with Israel. You're forgetting that America has supported Israel for longer than any other country.  

[divineseraph]

rillegas08

divineseraph

And don't tell me that Al Queda is not in a time of war- They are fighting Isreal. We are supplying Isreal with weaponry. After, of course, initially giving Al Queda weaponry to fight puppet-wars with us against the "communists". We, basically, use them one decade, then help their enemies the next. Much like Saddam, who we aided with a coup of the Iraqi government and put into power, and even aided in a war with peaceful and soverign nations. (See Iran) and then turned against when he went for a nation we owned oil stocks in (See Kuwait).

You're ignoring a huge fact here. You're forgetting that they were America's allies against communism. Once communism fell, they decided to use the weapons and knowledge they had gained from the Americans to try and destroy Israel, like Middle Easterners have been trying to do since Joshua led the Israelites into the Promised Land. After WWII, America became Israel's ally. When they started to attack Israel, America knew it had to decide which side to be on. Since we were stronger allies with Israel then, America sided with Israel. You're forgetting that America has supported Israel for longer than any other country.

And why do they care that we have a finger in everyone's pie? We're helping their enemies.  

[mazuac]

divineseraph

Disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

*sigh* Seraph? Must EVERYTHING be an argument with you? You know what's funny? Why can't you, for once, like... add insight instead of making a crude comment. Last time I checked, this was a Christian, CHRISTIAN, guild. Meaning, as in, Christian can find refuge here.

Hah! But that's not the case here >_> Is it? The poster says something that is awesome and you just HAVE to bring it down! God, this is what me and a few other people were talking about! Christian Guilds are being overrun and destroyed by people like you! If you want to make an argument, take it up in the debate, here at LEAST try to be respectful of what a person has said. Or, no, I take that back. At least try to add to the conversation of the topic instead of turning into a huge debate!

 

[mazuac]

Anyways, I think that is great that God has used a tragic incident to bring the family to Jesus! ^^ Praise be to God forever and ever! ^^

 

[Tarrou]

Allow me to make a few observations:

1. Threads, unlike Christ, are not supposed to rise again, especially when they've been dead for five months. The stone was rolled, the cave was sealed, and the thread was as dead as Marley, a door-nail, or a mixed metaphor.

2. Now I have to move this to the debate forum. I'll do that tomorrow sometime so that you all have a chance to see this post and don't wonder where it's got to.

3. Regardless of divineseraph's contrarianism, you'll excuse me if I don't agree with mazuac's description of the OP's story as 'awesome'. Have you forgotten that 2,998 people died on September 11th, 2001? To call what happened that day anything other than 'evil' or 'tragic' seems crass, and to celebrate how it brought one person's relative to Christ while almost three thousand people died seems incredibly callous and self-absorbed.  

[divineseraph]

mazuac

divineseraph

Disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

*sigh* Seraph? Must EVERYTHING be an argument with you? You know what's funny? Why can't you, for once, like... add insight instead of making a crude comment. Last time I checked, this was a Christian, CHRISTIAN, guild. Meaning, as in, Christian can find refuge here.

Hah! But that's not the case here >_> Is it? The poster says something that is awesome and you just HAVE to bring it down! God, this is what me and a few other people were talking about! Christian Guilds are being overrun and destroyed by people like you! If you want to make an argument, take it up in the debate, here at LEAST try to be respectful of what a person has said. Or, no, I take that back. At least try to add to the conversation of the topic instead of turning into a huge debate!

It wasn't an attack on christianity, it was an attack on the ignorance of the general American public. Numerically speaking (which, when human lives are on the line, is what really matters), 9/11 was nothing, It was a pinprick compared to the pain and terror we have inflicted upon others.  

[But Be Respectful]

divineseraph

gatetrek

Quote:

disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

How are we terrorists? We don't go into someone's country and bomb them for their religious beliefs. We didn't even bomb the Soviet Union during the communist days. Therefore I ask again, how are we terrorists?

And who is "we" anyways? Is it "we" as in America? or "we" as in Christians? I'll admit, us Christians have done some pretty awful things in the past (i.e. the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades). And yes, they do hold a certain amount of comparison to the acts of Al Qaida and the Taliban, for they too were based on religious beliefs.

9/11 not a disaster? tell that to the hundred of thousands who died. tell that to their families. tell that to the soldiers who are fighting today as a result of it. Not a disaster. For heaven's sake its the worst disaster since the Atomic Bomb attacks on the Japanese (which btw was a retaliation and the quickest/less costs in life way to end the war). I bet that every person will remember exactly what they were doing when they found out about 9/11 for the rest of their lives. I sure will.

In the future, back up your statements with AT LEAST a little more detail. Preferably, with verifiable facts too.

We as America. Look at Japan- Hiroshima and Nagasaki were purely terrorist attacks. How is terrorism defined? It is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We dropped a bomb in the center of civilian cities. On bridges in the center of town. Not on a military base. Our goal was to kill as many japanese civilians as possible. Why? To coerce the japanese leaders into surrender with violence an threats. And no, this was not the easiest way. Negotiations with the USSR were underfoot and Japan was on the verge of surrender. Their military force was non-existent. For the last few weeks before the bombs, pilots reported it like being on vacation- there was no resistance.

We are, historically speaking, terrorists. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were barely the tip of the iceberg. We annihilated Dresden, hundreds of villages in Vietnam and dozens of cities in japan with conventional weaponry. We've killed millions of civilians. And don't tell me that Al Queda is not in a time of war- They are fighting Isreal. We are supplying Isreal with weaponry. After, of course, initially giving Al Queda weaponry to fight puppet-wars with us against the "communists". We, basically, use them one decade, then help their enemies the next. Much like Saddam, who we aided with a coup of the Iraqi government and put into power, and even aided in a war with peaceful and soverign nations. (See Iran) and then turned against when he went for a nation we owned oil stocks in (See Kuwait).

And hundreds of thousands? We lost no more than five thousand in 9/11. This is a paltry sum, considering our military actions in the past. We deserve at least another 49 9/11's to be equal to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, let alone the other cities we've decimated. Unless, of course, Japanese lives are less human and hold some sort of lesser value that good ol' American lives. Even then, I would think the japanese aren't worth only 1/50 of an American.

So. 9/11? It was nothing. If you want to be upset about a loss of life, protest the American Military. Which, by the way, killed more civilians in the subsequent bombings of Afghani villages than we lost in 9/11.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have been civilian cities, but they were the greatest manufacturers of war supplies in Japan.

The only other option was Operation Downfall, the plan to invade Japan. This would have cost over 100,000 lives on the American side alone, not to mention Japan's men, in the first month. PM me if you want to talk more about this; I won't be on for a week tho. I did a report on this, so I have more to say than can be discussed here.

Yes, we've killed civilians. Unfortunately, that's part of guerilla warfare. Not only have we done that, but the people we're fighting today have done that too. The problem with this war is not support from the civilians, its that the enemy is so cowardly that they won't come out into the open, so we can't tell the difference between an enemy soldier and a civilian. For all they know, a Middle Eastern family's next door neighbor could be firing rockets off in their backyard.

So I admit, we did lose only a couple thousand people. But does that make their lives lost any less significant? No.

And I'm not saying that the atomic bombings weren't horrendous acts, I'm just saying that it was the lesser of the two evils that could have been chosen.  

[divineseraph]

gatetrek

divineseraph

gatetrek

Quote:

disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

How are we terrorists? We don't go into someone's country and bomb them for their religious beliefs. We didn't even bomb the Soviet Union during the communist days. Therefore I ask again, how are we terrorists?

And who is "we" anyways? Is it "we" as in America? or "we" as in Christians? I'll admit, us Christians have done some pretty awful things in the past (i.e. the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades). And yes, they do hold a certain amount of comparison to the acts of Al Qaida and the Taliban, for they too were based on religious beliefs.

9/11 not a disaster? tell that to the hundred of thousands who died. tell that to their families. tell that to the soldiers who are fighting today as a result of it. Not a disaster. For heaven's sake its the worst disaster since the Atomic Bomb attacks on the Japanese (which btw was a retaliation and the quickest/less costs in life way to end the war). I bet that every person will remember exactly what they were doing when they found out about 9/11 for the rest of their lives. I sure will.

In the future, back up your statements with AT LEAST a little more detail. Preferably, with verifiable facts too.

We as America. Look at Japan- Hiroshima and Nagasaki were purely terrorist attacks. How is terrorism defined? It is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We dropped a bomb in the center of civilian cities. On bridges in the center of town. Not on a military base. Our goal was to kill as many japanese civilians as possible. Why? To coerce the japanese leaders into surrender with violence an threats. And no, this was not the easiest way. Negotiations with the USSR were underfoot and Japan was on the verge of surrender. Their military force was non-existent. For the last few weeks before the bombs, pilots reported it like being on vacation- there was no resistance.

We are, historically speaking, terrorists. And Hiroshima and Nagasaki were barely the tip of the iceberg. We annihilated Dresden, hundreds of villages in Vietnam and dozens of cities in japan with conventional weaponry. We've killed millions of civilians. And don't tell me that Al Queda is not in a time of war- They are fighting Isreal. We are supplying Isreal with weaponry. After, of course, initially giving Al Queda weaponry to fight puppet-wars with us against the "communists". We, basically, use them one decade, then help their enemies the next. Much like Saddam, who we aided with a coup of the Iraqi government and put into power, and even aided in a war with peaceful and soverign nations. (See Iran) and then turned against when he went for a nation we owned oil stocks in (See Kuwait).

And hundreds of thousands? We lost no more than five thousand in 9/11. This is a paltry sum, considering our military actions in the past. We deserve at least another 49 9/11's to be equal to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, let alone the other cities we've decimated. Unless, of course, Japanese lives are less human and hold some sort of lesser value that good ol' American lives. Even then, I would think the japanese aren't worth only 1/50 of an American.

So. 9/11? It was nothing. If you want to be upset about a loss of life, protest the American Military. Which, by the way, killed more civilians in the subsequent bombings of Afghani villages than we lost in 9/11.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have been civilian cities, but they were the greatest manufacturers of war supplies in Japan.

The only other option was Operation Downfall, the plan to invade Japan. This would have cost over 100,000 lives on the American side alone, not to mention Japan's men, in the first month. PM me if you want to talk more about this; I won't be on for a week tho. I did a report on this, so I have more to say than can be discussed here.

Yes, we've killed civilians. Unfortunately, that's part of guerilla warfare. Not only have we done that, but the people we're fighting today have done that too. The problem with this war is not support from the civilians, its that the enemy is so cowardly that they won't come out into the open, so we can't tell the difference between an enemy soldier and a civilian. For all they know, a Middle Eastern family's next door neighbor could be firing rockets off in their backyard.

So I admit, we did lose only a couple thousand people. But does that make their lives lost any less significant? No.

And I'm not saying that the atomic bombings weren't horrendous acts, I'm just saying that it was the lesser of the two evils that could have been chosen.

We have, and they have. We all have. So if you're pissed off about terrorism, remember, you're pissed off at American wartime strategy too. This is my point. Not that America is wrong or Al Queda is right or that japan was right or wrong or anything like this.

When we kill civilians, we are all equally wrong. America too.  

[lordstar]

mazuac

divineseraph

Disaster? A weak disaster. 9/11 was nothing compared to what we have done. We are terrorists too.

*sigh* Seraph? Must EVERYTHING be an argument with you? You know what's funny? Why can't you, for once, like... add insight instead of making a crude comment. Last time I checked, this was a Christian, CHRISTIAN, guild. Meaning, as in, Christian can find refuge here.

Hah! But that's not the case here >_> Is it? The poster says something that is awesome and you just HAVE to bring it down! God, this is what me and a few other people were talking about! Christian Guilds are being overrun and destroyed by people like you! If you want to make an argument, take it up in the debate, here at LEAST try to be respectful of what a person has said. Or, no, I take that back. At least try to add to the conversation of the topic instead of turning into a huge debate!

divineseraph makes a good point (who btw didn't say 9/11 wasn't tragic in any way shape or form)

I expected better from you mazuac
really though
"people like you"
how disappointing