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 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:46 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:48 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:08 pm
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When believing, you must understand that people accept Christ just because of what happened and trust it did happen. The fact is he did exist. You can't really deny Jesus existed, considering some of the worlds' top Theologians have come to that conclusion, as well as myself. wink
Why is God never left any slack for deciding on whether or not He exists?The fact that we, right now, at this very moment in time, are discussing whether He is or is not real, is not for us to decide because we as humans are ones to question such things because we most likely don't know the true answer. Just because we can speculate doesn't mean its' as relevant as the fact that He does or does not exist, which we as humans do our best at, but are probably never correct, on either side. You're right, I can't prove or disprove it anymore than you can. I can, however say, that trusting that He IS real is what faith is all about in the end. You can't put reason around things like what we don't know could or could not be divine intervention, for example. Can you disprove it isn't something divine and omnipotent running the universe? I can not prove that it is, but we have *FAITH* that it is. You don't and that's okay. I, as a Christian, still love you and thats what I believe I'm being called to do.
I've talked on long enough about this subject. Come to a well-rounded conclusion for yourself and I shall try to accept and respond to it as best as I can, to the best of my ability. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:44 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:29 pm
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CogitoErgoGeek maplestoryjunky ...I can, however say, that trusting that He IS real is what faith is all about in the end... Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Now that you get on this topic, though, I have one serious question to which I have not received a satisfactory answer from any Christian (or other religious person). I would truly like to understand. Perhaps you'd like to take a stab at it... Let us define faith as "belief without compelling evidence," or something very similar. (Correct me if you think this is a poor definition.) If this is faith, then why is faith considered such a virtue? It seems that belief becomes completely arbitrary, if founded upon this type of faith. How can you meaningfully choose between the wide range of beliefs when there is no compelling evidence to discern the truth from fiction?
I'll link what is defined in the dictionary as faith:http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/faith
Assuming it follows suit with these (preferrably the parts about God 3nodding ), it wouldn't seem arbitrary at all if you had faith. Not all people consider faith to be a virtue, particurlary Atheists, not to point them out or say they don't have faith in themselves for instance. It's just an example.
The choice of what religion you choose isn't mine to make. It's yours. The meaningfulness on which you decide on comes from you, or in your case, whichever you feel all the more inclined towards because it may seem more reasonable than Christianity to you than to me. If thats how you feel, by all means, choose it. The truth about these things are something humans are going to pursue until Hell freezes over, which basically means forever. sweatdrop
For me to answer such complex questions is stressing me out. I hope you think I did a good job. I'm only 17 and I try to find reason behind it too. Accepting faith is a virtue I hold because there's no reason not to still, even in such a world where people try to find reasons not to. It just makes me feel sad that I joined this guild looking for reasons to stay a believer and discuss Jesus and how much he loved and still loves us, and then I find this, and now I'm questioning my purpose in life to do so. It doesn't feel right. It really discourages me. I believe what I believe and take my approach to it to the best extent, and yours the same way. This question is just as demanding on me as it is on you. crying |
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:42 pm
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I've doubted the existence of God. Many, many times. There was one point in my life where I indentified myself as a "converted atheist."
As a kid, I did the whole Catholic thing because it was what my family did. THen I went through that awkward teenage-growing-up phase where I started to doubt and question just about everything. And then some crap happened, I was forced to grow up a little, and slowly made my way back to the world of religious faith.
I've said this many times in this guild, but I'll say it again: faith cannot be forced. You cannot believe something based soley on the experiences and testimonies of others. Faith, or lackthereof, has to come from within you and no one else. If you base your beliefs off what other people tell you, it's more than likely that your convictions will never be terribly strong. Whatever you end up believing, it needs to be something that's deeply personal for you.
I've also found that periods of doubt are pretty healthy. You should question things, explore other ideas, and really take the time to examine what you believe. That's the only way you'll ever feel truly convicted in your beliefs. And, if you end up coming back to Christianity, or even if you end up taking another path of belief, you'll likely be far more educated and strong in your beliefs because they've withstood that period of doubt.
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:04 am
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:53 am
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CogitoErgoGeek maplestoryjunky For me to answer such complex questions is stressing me out... I'm sorry. I'll lay off of you. I do understand. These questions stressed me out a lot a few months ago. I did not know how to deal with them. That's why I now lack faith. I still do not have answers.
I certainly hope you can pursue faith for yourself in days ahead. I thank you for the apology as well, it's all well now. Just try to find reason for yourself to believe if you still want to. Just try and give it time. Time on this matter, I'm sure, can help it along. So good luck and God bless. I'll be thinking about you. smile
I hope I helped you out as much as was possible. These are difficult times for you, as well as myself. Just know that you're not alone and I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. 3nodding |
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:55 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 pm
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I can't really help you here. When it's the right time, God will show you Himself in a way that is unique to your life/experiences and that will give you that boost of that faith that you need.
When I find myself doubting, I always come up with a rationalization (on a godly level I suppose) as to why my doubts are wrong.
What are some things that are bothering you about God? Do you have any questions and maybe I can answer some type of question that may cause you to doubt.
All I know is, God has blessed me too much for me not to believe in Him. The little things and the big things. I know he has always been there for me.
Also, people like to doubt because of bad experiences that they go through. However, bad experiences are going to happen. They are a part of life. No one promised a perfect life when you were converted into a Christian (very overused statement, but it is true). When bad things happen, we have to take it as ... okay, maybe this is a test (better make sure I pass it), maybe this is Satan, maybe this will make me stronger.
Just don't throw up your hands so easily.
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:20 am
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Walkwithyou I can't really help you here. When it's the right time, God will show you Himself in a way that is unique to your life/experiences and that will give you that boost of that faith that you need. When I find myself doubting, I always come up with a rationalization (on a godly level I suppose) as to why my doubts are wrong. What are some things that are bothering you about God? Do you have any questions and maybe I can answer some type of question that may cause you to doubt. All I know is, God has blessed me too much for me not to believe in Him. The little things and the big things. I know he has always been there for me. Also, people like to doubt because of bad experiences that they go through. However, bad experiences are going to happen. They are a part of life. No one promised a perfect life when you were converted into a Christian (very overused statement, but it is true). When bad things happen, we have to take it as ... okay, maybe this is a test (better make sure I pass it), maybe this is Satan, maybe this will make me stronger. Just don't throw up your hands so easily.
I won't speak for Tashin, but my own doubts have nothing to do with "things that are bothering me about God" or "bad experience that I have gone through." I simply do not see any compelling evidence of God anywhere. I realized this recently, and I could not deny the fact that I do not really know that God is there. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:53 pm
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CogitoErgoGeek Walkwithyou I can't really help you here. When it's the right time, God will show you Himself in a way that is unique to your life/experiences and that will give you that boost of that faith that you need. When I find myself doubting, I always come up with a rationalization (on a godly level I suppose) as to why my doubts are wrong. What are some things that are bothering you about God? Do you have any questions and maybe I can answer some type of question that may cause you to doubt. All I know is, God has blessed me too much for me not to believe in Him. The little things and the big things. I know he has always been there for me. Also, people like to doubt because of bad experiences that they go through. However, bad experiences are going to happen. They are a part of life. No one promised a perfect life when you were converted into a Christian (very overused statement, but it is true). When bad things happen, we have to take it as ... okay, maybe this is a test (better make sure I pass it), maybe this is Satan, maybe this will make me stronger. Just don't throw up your hands so easily. I won't speak for Tashin, but my own doubts have nothing to do with "things that are bothering me about God" or "bad experience that I have gone through." I simply do not see any compelling evidence of God anywhere. I realized this recently, and I could not deny the fact that I do not really know that God is there.
So, there's no evidence what so ever ... AT ALL ... that makes you think there is a God? |
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:58 pm
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Tashin Hanabi I've lost most of my convictions. I'm unsure what I really believe now, and I don't really know what to do. I can't really call myself Christian anymore because of all the changes... I don't know what to think about God....whether he exists, or doesn't, and if he does what he is like...if he doesn't, what that means for us after death. I'm looking at the world now and am sort of let down. I used to be so strongly convicted about Christianity, and now I see...no evidence. I...hope desperately that there is a God, that he cares, that I can somehow know Him. But I'm not sure if it's wise to try and shape a belief on what I hope to be true when I have no real confidence... I'm stuck. I want to believe it's true, but I have no reason to. In a way I wish I could fool myself into thinking I believe it, because it seems like that would be easier than just not knowing... Can anyone relate? Is anyone going through this/has gone through it?
Hey man...Well I mean you are going through what i think most Christians go through at one point or another. The point where Your faith becomes your own. My girlfriend is actually in the same place you are. Not sure about God, About Christ, and she has a lot of questions.
My advice to you would be the same as my advice to her...belief is not something that just happens, it is something YOU CHOOSE to you. YOU CHOOSE to believe that Christ is the Son of God, and That God Loves you. You CHOOSE to believe that God has your best interest as hear and that he loves you more than ANYONE loves you. These are things that you choose. You CHOOSE you live by his mandates, and accept that what he want you to do is right, because of WHO he is. Don't let anyone tell you you are not a good Christian because you have your Doubts...even the strongest Christians have Doubts.
Hey man. Look me up...the Names Ky-Kiske101
If you wanna chat, maybe talk about some of those doubts and questions, just hit me up iight? |
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:06 pm
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Here is my evidence- The discovery of metal. Simply that.
Think about it- It's a complicated thing. Normal fires heat to about 760 C. Copper, the first real metal, doesn't melt until over 1000 C. In fact, the only metal I have found which can melt in a normal fire is Tin, which was used primarily to combine with copper. Therefore, copper came before tin. Other than tin, metal requires an oven designed to heat higher than normal temperature for a long period of time. Ovens for cooking bricks heat to about 900 degrees. So basically, the only way one would smelt a metal would be to use an oven FOR smelting metal. And the only purpose one would have to own such an oven would be to smelt such metal.
but it is said that fallen angels told man how to make metal. (amongst other things) Seeing as I can't believe that some guy would happen to make a randomly purposeless oven, and heated it as hot as possible for no other reason than to cook rocks, and happened to find a rock which had metal in it, and from there happened to obtain the metal from said rock... I'm gonna go with divine intervention on this one.
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