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LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:13 am


[Raito]
What do you do to make food kosher? I read your earlier posts about salting the meat, but what about other foods? Do they need to be kosher?


ahh the Laws of Kashruit in regards to food.

Well there's 2 interpretations

Kosher Style and Glat Kosher

Kosher Style is keeping with the origional concepts of Kosher without becoming Adrian Monk. Don't place milk and meat on the same plate, do not consume pork, do not consume shellfish. That's it.

Glat Kosher is Kosher Style with a healthy dose of a**l retention. All food must be fresh, and if it's processed at all, a rabbi must inspect the food processing plant to make sure that the food is infact kosher. Then the rabbi authorizes the food processer to place a symbol on their label that shows the product is infact glat kosher.

There's a suprising number of things that both qualify as kosher, and those that are not kosher. For example...

Bacos = Glat Kosher, it contians no element of pork, it's completly vegetarian.

Hostess Cupcakes = Not Kosher, they contain gelitan within their frosting that is made from animal bones, mixing with the milk products within the cupcake makes the cupcake not kosher.

But wait there's more!

Remember how I mentioned Glat Kosher is a**l retentave? and that under general law, you're not supposed to place milk and meat on the same plate. Under Glat Kosher interpretation you're not supposed to do that with the residuals on the plate. Meaning, no matter how long ago you had that cheese cake, the plate you served it on may NEVER have any meat product on it, It's dairy from that point on.

I'm sure I've raised more questions then I've answered, but that's the general principle.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:31 am


Oh...I guess that makes a little bit of sense. Kosher style anyways makes sense.

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Divash
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:00 pm


"Kosher style" means "not kosher," unfortunately. Leaving out pork, shellfish, or overtly visible mixtures of meat and dairy... that's a good start, but "well begun is half done," as Mary Poppins would put it.

"Glatt" means smooth (Yiddish from German), and it refers to the condition of the lung of the slaughtered animal, which has to be examined for smoothness versus lesions, to determine whether the kosher animal, slaughtered in kosher fashion, is actually kosher.

Lately, "glatt" has been extended in the vernacular to mean "kosher according to the strictest interpretation." That means that not only do meat foods not go on dairy utensils (and vice versa), but they also aren't cooked on the same stovetop burners or in the same ovens, and the dishes aren't washed in the same basin or with the same dish rag/sponge/brush. However! If you're Sephardi, you can switch between milk, parve, and meat if the dishes are glass (not Pyrex, which is a mixture of glass and metal, but PURE glass).
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:48 am


Quick question then, is Veal considered Kosher?!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:20 pm


Veal is baby cow, and because cows are kosher, veal can be kosher -- if it's raised in a kosher way, slaughtered in a kosher way, and examined and found to be without defect.

That doesn't make it a nice thing to eat, though, does it? You know how they make veal? They stick a calf in a dark, tiny pen so that it never sees light and it never gets a chance to exercise or walk around on the grass. They feed it nothing but milk, long past the age at which it should be eating grass. Then they kill it while it's still young. It has a horrible life. Personally, I can't stand that thought, so I won't touch veal.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:31 am


Divash
Veal is baby cow, and because cows are kosher, veal can be kosher -- if it's raised in a kosher way, slaughtered in a kosher way, and examined and found to be without defect.

That doesn't make it a nice thing to eat, though, does it? You know how they make veal? They stick a calf in a dark, tiny pen so that it never sees light and it never gets a chance to exercise or walk around on the grass. They feed it nothing but milk, long past the age at which it should be eating grass. Then they kill it while it's still young. It has a horrible life. Personally, I can't stand that thought, so I won't touch veal.


Wrong, they dont feed it milk. They feed it somethign that makes the meat more tender. Its cruel and unjust.

Personaly i think that kind of life on any of Gods creatures is in no way kosher. And if its alright to treat a living thing like that, then thats when i start to question.

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darkphoenix1247
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:56 am


sad I refuse to eat baby anything, even if for some incredibly odd reason it was kosher. I like at least knowing what I eat had somewhat of a chance at life, even if it was raised on a farm. Mind you- not that I eat meat that often anyway.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:37 pm


I admit it. I eat baby things. Baby carrots, baby corn... Yeah. I eat those every chance I get.

But baby animals? Forget it. We have a concept called "tzar baeilim hachayot," cruelty to living creatures, as in, AVOID IT. Therefore, in the opinion of the rav I respect in this matter (and in mine, too), such things aren't kosher for a Jew to eat, because making that dish depends on cruelty to animals. The same goes for foie gras, which is made by force-feeding a goose until it gets sick, then taking its liver to make into a delicacy. Disgusting, that people would cause such pain to any creature for any reason, but especially for a non-essential "treat!"

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LordNeuf
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:39 am


Divash

We have a concept called "tzar baeilim hachayot," cruelty to living creatures, as in, AVOID IT. Therefore, in the opinion of the rav I respect in this matter (and in mine, too), such things aren't kosher for a Jew to eat, because making that dish depends on cruelty to animals. The same goes for foie gras, which is made by force-feeding a goose until it gets sick, then taking its liver to make into a delicacy. Disgusting, that people would cause such pain to any creature for any reason, but especially for a non-essential "treat!"


To add on the concept of tzar baeilim hachayot... one of the reasons we say so many prayers, (BTW this is not a sanctioned interpretation, I'm doing this on my own,) is that the protein on our plate, gave its life, to sustain ours.

That's why Kosher meat is ritually killed, and they try to keep the animal as calm as possible. Special knives, specially titled jews with said special knives, ritually kill the animal and then inspect it.

Meanwhile, while I'm off in the woods of New England, durring archery and/or muzzeloader season looking for half a ton of angry pot-roast, I know that the animal I take is not going to be glat kosher, regardless of how fast it goes down, or what it's hooves look like. However, the take is just as kosher as the brisket from the supermarket that my mother prepares every rosh-hashonna, using my grandmother's time honored method of making galvanized rubber.

Besides, I take most of my hunt to a nearby 'res' and preform tzedakah.

I know that Divash will probably never eat anything out of my kitchen without renovating the appliances with boiling water and a blow torch, but frankly, It's inpossible for me to either go all the way glat, or just forget the concept all together.

The reason I brought this topic up, was I wasn't sure if filet mignon was kosher or not. I can stop eating filet mignon at the steak house.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:02 am


Divash
I admit it. I eat baby things. Baby carrots, baby corn... Yeah. I eat those every chance I get.

xd My mistake- I love those as well.

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ladyxdulcina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:50 am


Probably a stupid question:

What does it mean to raise an animal kosher? Does that mean no cruelty, hormones, stuff like that?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:24 pm


ladyxdulcina
Probably a stupid question:

What does it mean to raise an animal kosher? Does that mean no cruelty, hormones, stuff like that?


I believe it means to prevent cruelty to it.

I.E don't beat it with sticks to make it behave, don't force feed it to improve it's weight/fat ratio, don't hit it with a stunner/bolter before you slaughter it.

However this also means, making the animal less cost effective to raise for market. Which is why many meat producers do not follow laws of kosher, and why those that do, have products that cost 3 times as much.

LordNeuf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm


Exactly, Neuf. Humane animal raising and slaughtering increase the cost. Personally, I feel that's a pretty good reason to decrease one's meat intake, rather than to decrease one's compassion for food animals or forego the laws of kashrut.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:03 am


Divash
Exactly, Neuf. Humane animal raising and slaughtering increase the cost. Personally, I feel that's a pretty good reason to decrease one's meat intake, rather than to decrease one's compassion for food animals or forego the laws of kashrut.


Simply put, I don't have the luxury of keeping kosher like that.

I could theoretically decrease my intake of meaty goodness, however the alternative protein source is?? oh yeah, just as expensive.

OR....

I could declare war on nature and slaughter 300 pounds of angry potroast and eat all winter for pennies a day.

At least with kosher style cooking, I don't have to wean myself off bacon double cheeseburgers and pork rib barbeques again.

LordNeuf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:28 pm


Have you tried ordering kosher meat online? http://www.kosher.com has some fantastic meats and fish. They ship it in such a way that it's frozen solid the entire time it's in shipping, and you can thaw it out whenever you want it. Yes, it costs some, but I find it's worth it, personally. Also, canned tuna is often kosher.
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