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Was searching through my cards the other day and came across this:


Since Vintage is so blue heavy, due to force of will, tinker, and all sorts of other brokenness. i figure its decent for vintage where most of the good decks rely on blue for either draw or control. (i.e. oath, slaver, gat, flash, and fish) this is another threat that they have to deal with.

heres the reasons why:

1. It activates during the beginning of your main phase, after you draw, so you can add what ever you need to go nuts on your turn and its basically free resources!

2. Decks that don't run a lot of lands (i.e. 2 land belcher) this is good against control decks as it pulls counters and you can drop it on turn 1 and just let it sit there if so you wish.

3. Your opponent cant really stop you from getting those resources unless they remove it, using up something they could've used on something else, or just not play lands. Either way your still getting ahead on the deal.

4. It's an "up to X" ability! That hates all over blue!

All in all i think its a great sideboard card to have. What do you people think?

Don't give it so much flattery, there are less than a handful of decks in vintage that actually play islands. (Note: I'm extremely Sarcastic at times so don't over react to some comments)

Yes, blue pwns your a** very hard in vintage if you're not ready for it, but the fact that you don't need islands to play spells like FoW, and Misdirection is what makes Vintage what it is. Undercosted, overpowered cards. (like Tolarian Academy)

Yay! You can read, and can relate it to an in game scenario! How is this going to help...?

Two land belcher can't afford to play a card that relies on your opponent to play islands. First off, you should be in a position to win when you actually have a chance to play this card. (Flash should win before you even have a chance to play it.)

Only a complete new player to Vintage would waste a FoW, or Echoing Truth on that thing. It would be more like, "Ok, go have more mana, I'll either win before you can use it, or FoW whatever you're trying to spit out." It's just not practical. You're mana will grow exponentially if you keep laying a land, along with them playing an island, yes, but let's see something (best case scenario/mana in availability from lands that turn);

Turn 1 - 1 mana
Turn 2 - 3 mana (yay you have a non-Willable BL)
Turn 3 - 5 mana

And I don't really need to go any farther, because unless you're playing a heavy blue control deck packed with an insane amount of counterspells (like fish) you're already dead.

Yay, I don't get to have mana burn because of this card! Yay!. (Maybe for Legacy, but not for Vintage.)

Yes it's a good card, don't get me wrong there, but not for Vintage. I can see it being some sort of mana based combo deck in legacy that might play it. But Vintage is just not the place for it. Next time it wins you a game, or gives you the mana to do it against a reputable deck in Vintage then you can shove this all down my throat. Until then leave it in Legacy.

Point taken, but then please specify your topics. I wouldn't have touched this thread if you said something like "This card could help in 2-land belcher" and left it at that, but you said that it was a strong card in the vintage format which are what my points are based off of.


Yes I have been playing long enough to realize that, thanks for checking, and I hate to see %'s without a list. I could say something like those signature chains say like "98% of kids have smoked, if you're part of the 2% blah, blah, blah". Point being that without lists, %'s don't give us anything. Here's my list based on the vintage decks you're most often to play since your average local vintage tournament won't have too much of the power 9.

Elves
Fish
Flash
Goblins
Bomberman (Lion's Eye Diamond Variant)
Ichorid (Dredge)
2-Land Belcher
some random Threshold decks
and some random aggro Jitte decks

The way I see it, Elves, Goblins, Bomberman, Ichorid, belcher, and some of the random aggro decks won't be running any islands. So I'de give you closer to 40-50% at max.

I could say the same thing about Dragonstorm in Standard. But the difference between winning and losing with those types of decks if you don't win right away is knowing what to play, and when to play them. It may not be cool to you, but it works, so get used to it. The worst they'll do to it, is restrict it in Vintage (The only cards banned, are ante, and cards you drop onto the field), which I would find extremely surprising.

Again this thread would have been better off as "A new idea for Belcher" and stuck to that topic, not the whole; "its decent for vintage" generalization you gave it.

Maybe for a the sideboard card for Belcher, but not much vintage substance other than that.

you also have to remember. most of the time when you lose in vintage you need the resources to go off, like one or 2 mana. which this would provide.

The Carpet is a MAY ability so no burn unless you cant puke a hand..... In Vintage it is hard not to.

And I agree with Ramar.. it is an ok concept but definately NOT vintage. Legacy maybe but still pushing it