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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:40 pm
Alright, I was sitting in physics, paying very little attention, and I started thinking about vows, and attachment, etc, and I started thinking, is dying for your religion attachment? If someone was to hold a gun to my head and say "Drop Buddhism" and I didn't do it, would that be attachment? Is attachment when I don't follow the precepts too closely, because I'm not too attached to them? Or is it just in separation troubles. Also, isn't making vows not following the middle path? I saw it somewhere else posted, in a different wording, but I figured I might "revitalize it", seeing as I was going to ask a question anyway. So, answers? D;
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:21 pm
Oh yes, you can become attached to ideas and concepts. As for dying for your religion, it really depends on the situation and the context. If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to drop Buddhism, you can drop Buddhism because "Buddhism" is just an idea, and it's an idea that isn't directly conducive to realizing nirvana.
Buddhism is just a word, or an idea. So is the dharma. Though the dharma itself transcends just the idea: "dharma". Think of that Andy Worhol painting - it's not a soup can, it's a painting of a soup can. Ah yes! It's not Buddhism, it's just the idea of Buddhism.
I asked the same questions about vows, and for the longest time I didn't have much of a reason to keep all five of the lay precepts. I later learned from Venerable Thubten Chödron that the precepts are not like laws that you must follow or less you'll be jailed or something horrible. They are meant to encourage mindfulness and correct application of the Eightfold Path (well, at least I imagine so).
The precept to abstain from lying requires you to be very mindful of what you say and how you say it. So in that way it's not so much a restriction as a tool to help you develop. A similar way of looking at the precepts can change how the vows are generally understood and received.
As for vows and the Middle Path, well the vows as I've mentioned are not like laws that if you break you're done for (although that really depends on the situation and the decision of the sangha of monks and/or nuns). They're also not just airy, fluffy ideals that sounds nice and look good on paper. They're between those two things, but above either of them - they are tools, in my opinion.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:14 pm
i remember a taoist saying it went somewhere along the lines of,
"the master lets go of all things, she lets them pass by and pass through,
the master lets come what comes and lets go what goes, she resides in the center, and lets all things revolve around her."
it was one of the quotes from the Tao Te Ching that i keep in mind daily, though the specifity of the words have distorted seince i last read them.
anyway, i think personaly a "master" knows not only how to let go, but also how to embrace, how to truely let things come into ones hands and mind and heart and let it flow through and around them. as if they where a stone sitting in a mountain creek.
more practicly it really comes down to more of knowing what one should hold onto for the time being and knowing when they should let it go. as was previously mentioned, the 'idea' of detachment is simply a reminder to pay attention to what you are attached to and what you are not.
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:38 am
SO it's almost exactly what I figured. xD
I mean, I suppose there's a difference between being "attached", and holding true to your beliefs. And yeah, the term "Buddhism", I KNOW, is just a label, and labels are empty.. yes.. Yeah. xD
And as far as the middle way, those were my previous ideas, just started questioning.. And it makes more sense explained like that. 'ppreciate the input. =D
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:14 am
Peace Love And Skate SO it's almost exactly what I figured. xD I mean, I suppose there's a difference between being "attached", and holding true to your beliefs. And yeah, the term "Buddhism", I KNOW, is just a label, and labels are empty.. yes.. Yeah. xD And as far as the middle way, those were my previous ideas, just started questioning.. And it makes more sense explained like that. 'ppreciate the input. =D yeah, there is a very powerful difference between thoughtfulness towards your attachments and being true to your faith. and maybe it takes a good contemplation to find out where the bounderies are between the two. just remember in either direction to not go too far, be mindful of the middle path. "do not pull the strings too tight or they will break, do not let them be too loose or they will not play."
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