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[Morality] Can Good exist outside of Morality?

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[Barbarella]

Beginner Warrior

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:43 pm


Morality being a distinguishing between right and wrong behavior. Good can come out of wrongness, such as a wonderful person being born from a rape, but within the context of Morality, can Good exist outside of it? Is there an immoral Good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:57 am


Lying.

But more so if we say that it's immoral to lie, or to give someone who is seeking truthful information untruthful information for some other action we'd like to see happen.

Example, I think this is Kant, but I'm not sure XD

Someone knocks at the door and you answer it, it's a killer and they want to know where your wife is. Do you lie, or tell them the truth if your consider yourself a moral person?

Probably not a good answer, but I tried <3

Syntria
Captain


Starlock
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:54 am


I went ahead and added the appropriate bracketed tag for your topic; please try to use these in the fugure even when the topic subject is fairly obvious by the title. 3nodding

This question might boil down to semantics on some level. That which is moral is usually in some way shape or form defined as that which is good. If we see this definition as a solid one, than all good things are also by definition moral things (from there it follows good things cannot be immoral things). What both the terms 'good' and 'moral' mean are a bit more complex than that though so we're not likely to relegate ourselves to that sort of view.

Goodness depends wholely on perspective. What is seen as beneficial from a certain point of view neccesarily is not beneficial from another. For example, we might see it as 'good' that we have all this nice medicinal technology to save human lives but sometimes neglect to recognize the 'bad' side of the coin. What about the nonhuman animals which were manipulated all so we could save our own lives? Good for us, perhaps, not so good for them. neutral
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:52 pm


MistressPaco
Lying.

But more so if we say that it's immoral to lie, or to give someone who is seeking truthful information untruthful information for some other action we'd like to see happen.

Example, I think this is Kant, but I'm not sure XD

Someone knocks at the door and you answer it, it's a killer and they want to know where your wife is. Do you lie, or tell them the truth if your consider yourself a moral person?

Probably not a good answer, but I tried <3


I see...I do think that murder, stealing, lying and cheating (to name a few; inexact list) are moral in specific, strained, unhappy situations, even if illegal. That is when doing the legal thing is the immoral thing, such as betraying the wife in your example. A similar example is the one they give schoolchildren, about Hans and the sick wife - Hans' choice is to steal the medicine she needs from the pharmacy or watch her die. The moral choice, of course, is to steal, even though he knows he will face arrest.

@Starlock - Sorry, I somehow missed that all topics required a bracketed tag. I'll categorize future topics. 3nodding
I see what you mean about perspective: not only from the definition of one group vs. another (humans and test animals) but for group vs. individuals. In those cases, the "greater good" is taken to be the moral pathway, unless the group is so corrupt it cannot function and deserves to be dissolved.

[Barbarella]

Beginner Warrior


Kalile Alako

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:37 pm


As you said, it does rather boil down to semantics... which are important.
Another way to look at it would be to consider the question of what "morality" is. Do you view morality as a basic set of rules by which everyone can make good things happen? In that case, someone who does not follow every law, or the standards of society, can obviously be good without being moral.


Then there is the idea that morality is a more personal concept, whereupon each person must follow their own code of ethics. In this case, it would be more difficult to have good existing outside of morality, since a personal code of ethics can take extreme situations into account. Then it becomes a question of knowingly going against your personal morality, becoming bad. I think.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:25 pm



Problem would be the boundary between the superficial "good" and "evil" sides of morality. Without a clear definitiona dn boundary, there is no way to tell if there is either. Religions and such seem to say that a few things are "good" and lots of other things are "evil" when in my opinion, there is neither of those.


Without being to associate "right" and "wrong" with "good" and "evil," along with the lack of solid definitions, there is no answer to your question other than it doesn't exist.

-[[Yreka!]]-
Crew


[Barbarella]

Beginner Warrior

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:59 pm


-[[Yreka!]]-

Problem would be the boundary between the superficial "good" and "evil" sides of morality. Without a clear definitiona dn boundary, there is no way to tell if there is either. Religions and such seem to say that a few things are "good" and lots of other things are "evil" when in my opinion, there is neither of those.


Without being to associate "right" and "wrong" with "good" and "evil," along with the lack of solid definitions, there is no answer to your question other than it doesn't exist.


Hmm. So your answer is that "good" doesn't exist.
There's a shaky world view. biggrin
If there's no good, then there's no bad. They don't exist, so there is no choice to be made between them. Having no choices means you simply drift along as circumstances take you, and conscience is a pointless mental structure, more superfluous than the appendix.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:09 pm


The Law of Man: The idea that the one thing that separates us from the rest of the creatures in the world is the fact that we have morality; and not just a simple knowing of right and wrong, but a constant within all human beings that declares that some things are right and wrong. It is a law like the laws of mathematics, and it is what helps us act every day; there is "Good", and there is "Evil", and when we feel something in ourselves that detests or praises a certain act, we can choose to act on that.

We can also choose to ignore morality; or, at the worst, we can completely dehumanize ourselves and thereby forgo any sort of Morality whatsoever.

There is only one form of true evil: When a man or woman is so dehumanized or out of their right mind they're capable of doing the most immoral acts without a second thought; murder, war, hate crimes; these are done without consulting ones own morality, or even acknowledging it. This does not mean, however, that a man can not change after he's done these things; morality is always there for us to go back to, for us to see, and for us to act on. It is an alive thing, really, and something that can be built upon.

There is no evil beyond that; only good, and misshapen good. Acts may be immoral to some, but not others, and that is simply because of perspective; what one person does for the good of himself may be deemed wrong by everyone else, but it still achieved some sort of good--therefor it can not be called evil or wrong, it can only be called misshapen by the onlookers. This is where most conflict starts--the lack of understanding between two groups of people, or two people, that leads to mutual disrespect for one another. Sad, really, that people can't try and understand one another more.

That's about it, I'd say. At least for now.

Salaam~

MotherSky


XXXY2k114

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:23 am


to your question yes there could be a immoral good, take into consideration anti-hero's who do the wrong thing for the right reason ( for example the punisher who's family was killed by mafia, so in order to keep that from happening to others he kills mafia members)

also you must take in to consideration who or what decides whats good and evil? for example speeding is wrong but if the law was removed people would speed therefore it would no longer be a "wrong"
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