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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:32 pm
Fact: My family and I are hooked on this show called "Amazing Race". If you haven't heard of it, it's where pairs go around the world racing to be in the top 3 to win 1 million dollars. Well, some of the couples have/are gay. This one guy of one of the gay couples keeps making remarks about God. I don't know if he's Christian, but it unnerves me everytime the gay guy mentions God in some way (not really disrespectful though...).
Discussion: My parents and I were discussing the possiblity of him being a homosexual Christian. My parents were saying it's because there's this new thing of Christianity becoming more liberal and allowing homosexuallity because Jesus does not specifically say, the red ink does not specifically say.
My argument: "In the beginning the Word was with God... The Word is God."* Also in the Bible are 2 verses (different books... I think) but "one man and one woman"* and "men did lustful, shameful acts with each other and women too"*. Since the Word is JESUS, therefore JESUS DOES IN FACT SAY THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG!
*Paraphrase of what I've read before. Not actual quote!
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:39 am
Homosexuality is a sin just like all the other sins. Jesus doies frown apon it but he still loves them. All sin is equal. not one sin is worse than the other. yes homosexuality is wrong but if they are christian then atleast they know God. isn't that a good thing?
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:34 pm
True. As long as they don't act upon their urges it's ok. But this guy is in a 'lifetime partnership'. How can he say he knows God and still thinks it's okay to do his sinful acts? It's like murdering or stealing. You know it's wrong, but you do it over and over, day after day. (YOU don't necessarily do it. But that's an example of a person who claims to be Christian and won't give up their sinful acts to pursue the life Christ led.)
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:27 pm
Until you can quote, in context, the actual verses, with a minimal knowledge both of the time period they were written in and the original language's nuances, don't condemn other Christians.
PM me if you need some hints. Here's one up front; You're looking for both Leviticus 18:22; 20:13, and Romans 1:18-32.
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:15 pm
@Venstrida: Yeah it's a great thing and all, but it's also a mockery to it because he never repented from his sin of homosexuality.
I mean theres a slight possibility at a homo being a christian because not all Christians repent of their sins right away, or they're not bible reading because if they read the bible and where it said it was wrong they'd be majorly convicted by the sin they continue to pursue.
@Kuroi: Here are your verses
Lev 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (originally in Hebrew)
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (also originally in Hebrew)
I'm loving the Romans reference ^-^ at first I didn't know where you going with it but than I read on lol
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up, to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever., Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause, God gave them up, unto vile affections: for even, their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over, to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,4189 covetousness,4124 maliciousness;2549 full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that them."
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:29 pm
Masterful Bunny Leo Lots of hard to read stuff. Romans first. Quote: Passage Romans 1:25-32: 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator�who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (NIV) Now. The first underlined word, lust, is condemned everywhere in the bible, and is not simply a condemnation of homosexuality. Using it as such is a perversion of the original texts. Next, we have a grammatical issue. The bolded words "furthermore, since" mean that what comes AFTER the "since" is the reason for condemnation by god, the second underlined portion. That's idolatry, and rejection of God, which is also condemned throughout the bible. Now, the last part, in italics, is "to do what ought not to be done". If God is giving these sinners over NOW, then they must not have actually been doing anything sinful yet. And look, the list of punishments he gives them seems to contain nearly every kind of sin in the bible! EXCEPT homosexuality. I wonder why? As for Leviticus: Colossians 2:13-17 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[a]
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.The laws of the Old Testament were taken away. Christianity is now ruled by faith in Christ. If you'd like to debate that, I can happily bring up how the Levitican passages don't refer to gay sex at all. ^-^
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:23 pm
Hmmm... It comes down to how you interpret the verses of the Bible such as Leviticus, and Romans. Some people will tell you that the verses have been mistranslated. Others just don't believe these claims. There are scholars who support the one side, and scholars who support the other.
For example, does Jesus say nothing about homosexuality because he doesn't condemn it? Or does he say nothing because the issue wasn't up for debate at the time, and he is accepting of the established norm?
As for the old law not being relevant, there is the often quoted verse where Jesus will mention that not one stroke of a pen will be abolished.
At any rate, I dunno if debating this topic would be productive. It always comes up a lot in ED and Morality and Religion, and it never seems to go anywhere.
I reckon both sides should just pray for their opponents and leave it in God's hands.
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