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 Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:49 pm
Im sure most of you have seen that news report on putting seat belts on school buses. They say it would cost an extra $7,000 to equipped 1 school bus with seat belts. My questions to you is, is it worth it and if so would you be willing to pay more tax money to make this possible and why?
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:30 pm
Of course. If it could save one child, isn't that worth any price?
Mike's dad is a bus driver. He's not a very good one, I'll say that.
I was in his bus once and he didn't even see the SUV behind us!
We knew the person in the SUV(she's a friend of mine and Mike's)and she mentioned that he wasn't checking his mirrors enough since he didn't see her(she's also a bus driver).
I can't say that every driver is like him because they're not. But he gets so distracted by talking to the kids that seat belts WOULD be a good safety precaution.
But getting the kids to wear them would be the hard part. The driver would need an assistant to check on them constantly.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:36 pm
Well, Logan doesn't ride the bus except on field trips, but the PCI/Headstart busses have seatbelts. I think moreso because there are really young kids (like 18 months) who wouldn't sit still anyways. But the bus is less than 10, 000 lbs. With that being said, they don't just artibitrarily NOT put seatbelts in buses. If you reach some research, they do have reasons and not just monetary. Riding a bus is safer than a regular passenger car. It's like I was pointing out in your microchip thread. Availability heuristic. The fatalies are much more exaggerated than really occus in ratio to regular passenger cars. Buses aren't designed by some yahoo. The fatalities are rare, resulting from rollovers, which with all these SUVs, you're more likely to die in those anyways. Although I'm not sure where you pulled the $7000 number from, I've seen it for less, on the sites, which I can cite. Quote: NHTSA says school buses are about seven times safer than passenger cars or light trucks. According to data it released in May, “The school bus occupant fatality rate of 0.2 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (VMT) is considerably lower than the fatality rates for passenger cars or light trucks (1.44 per 100 million VMT).” Quote: That study found that lap belts could increase the risk of serious neck and abdominal injuries. Shoulder belts, the study concluded, "could provide some benefit, unless misused." Many young passengers, the study warned, were likely to wear shoulder belts incorrectly, slipping them behind their backs or under an arm. That, in turn, also could increase the risk of injury in a crash. Experts on school bus safety noted that the buses -- because of their size and the design of their passenger cabins -- have a far lower fatality rate in crashes than regular passenger vehicles. The national study, reviewing data from 1990 through 2000, found an average of 10.2 crash deaths a year among those riding in school buses. A separate 2002 report from the National Research Council found that walking, riding a bicycle and traveling to school in a car were far riskier than riding in a school bus. With tall, shock-absorbing backrests, compartmentalized seating and padded benches, "a school bus holds children like eggs in an egg crate," said Liz Neblett, a spokeswoman for the traffic safety administration. "It is the safest form of transportation on the road." Ultimately, if you have such a large issue, drive the child yourself. Regular city transportation buses do not have seatbelts either. Then you have the issues of carseat/boosters on top of seatbelts. 4 out of 5 children aren't strapped in properly as it is in their REGULAR passenger vehicles.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:24 pm
@lunashock : For one I didnt just pull the $7000 price from anywhere I was watching the story about seatbelt and buses on the NEWS and that is the price it would cost to put seatbelt on scho0ol buses WERE I LIVE. For two if your not going to answer the questions I have asked dont bother posting this topic isnt about how safe buses are made. And for three what about parent out there who work and due to there hours they cant drive thier kids to school so the only option for them is the school bus?
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:18 pm
I think she did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer. sweatdrop She was just explaining why the belts aren't there in the first place.
I rode the bus almost my entire school career, never had an issue. In all the stories I've ever heard about accidents, haven't seen a single fatality; some injuries, but never a fatality. I remember some of the seats already did have lap belts. Based on how they're constructed and my own experience, I'm not sure they need belts and am not overly concerned about it. I wouldn't have any issue with my own child riding the bus as they are now.
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:33 pm
Okay, I wasn't the only one who didn't answer your question and last I checked YOU posted this topic asking for opinions. I was pointing out WHY they aren't in school buses and can also cause harm. No need for melodramatics because I don't agree with you. Now, back to the question. The problem with raising taxes is how do you guarantee that the money FROM taxes will solely go to installing seatbelts? Public schools are strapped for money for the most part as it is, and there are more pressing safety issues that affect all children at school. I've looked into the seatbelt issue myself. My hometown there was the most recent tradegy, not 5 minutes from my ILs house. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/bus.crash/index.htmlAnd the cause of their deaths wasn't from the lack of seatbelts, it was from dickhead RACING the bus, lost control, struck the bus, which caused it to go off the overpass. The reason the driver survived was because he either jumped out or was ejected from not wearing his seatbelt. I think the money would be better spent on dealing with education on other drivers rather than accidents that are extremely rare to have fatalities. Buses have been SHOWN to be safer than passenger cars, which you are ignoring what I posted. Also, the big issues is that seatbelts could cause more injuries than without (as previously posted). As sad as it sounds (like in the case of the accident above), if an accident is that severe, chances are seatbelts are not going to save a child. Costs: Quote: 3) SAFETY BELT COST UNKNOWN: While most parties agree the cost to install two-point lap belts is only $1,500 to $2,000 per bus on new buses, when multiplied by the 25,000 to 30,000 large buses manufactured in a typical year, the total cost ranges between $37,500,000 to $60,000,000 annually. That would amount to between $450,000,000 to $900,000,000 to install lapbelts in all large buses during the 12 to 15 years it takes to replace the entire fleet. Regarding the cost to install three-point safety belts, no authoritative source has calculated that cost. That's because three-point safety belts will require significant re-engineering of school bus design to accommodate the devices. source: http://www.stnonline.com/stn/occupantrestraint/proscons/index.htmOther safety measures that money could be more effective on: http://www.stnonline.com/stn/occupantrestraint/proscons/sb_9measures.htmI understand some parents have no options, but really it's been proven safer than passenger cars. In fact they are EIGHT times safer. source: http://www.cuphd.org/documents/press_release/2006/08-23-2006_Bus_Safety.pdf
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:17 am
@lunashock : I do understand what your saying about the hole tax thing because like you said there is no garuntee that the money will go for that one sole purpose. However even if the money would be use for other things such as hireing new teachers, buying new books, improving playground eqipment,ect. dont you think it would still be worth it? I mean after all these are our kids we are talking about, and I for one am willing to pay more in taxes to see an emprovement in my kids school weither it be on the buses or in the school its self. And I pretty sure MOST parents would agree with me on that one point.
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:35 am
So this is a tax issue and not a seatbelt? While, personally, I wouldn't mind paying more taxes, it's not that simple. The reason why the increases don't go through is because bottom line, those who don't have children, is it fair for them to pay more if they have no children or children who do not attend that school district? I don't know how your area is, but I know here in this city, certain ISDs have pretty hefty taxes as it is (even if Texas has one of the lowest state taxes in the US). It also depends on what taxes are going to be increased. Property? Sales? Example: For those who barely struggle to get by, when they have to pay the annual property tax, depending on how high the rate is, it could be pretty bad. We can't afford to pay property tax right now which is why we rent. It's a hard balance of the districts that have families that can afford the increase of taxes and the poorer ones that can't, so you have that lopsided balance of school districts. http://www.lohud.com/LivingHere/westchester05/features/taxes.htmlPersonally, that's why I have such a beef with the public school system, it would take a LOT of money to improve the system. Even with the lottery, it's not enough. Really, if you look at the percentage of money from the lottery going to education, it's quite suprisingly disappointing. I think bigger issues need to addressed than seatbelts on school buses which have been proven to be safer than people think, such as legislation like the NCLB. I don't know how your area is, but if the public school systems are pretty bad, I recommend looking into charter schools/magnet. I have quite a few friends whose children are in charter schools and they get the education of a private school without the price. Most Americans are in favor of increased federal spending on education, but I agree with this fundamental line: Quote: Half of Americans say the biggest problems facing education are not about money, but about a lack of parental involvement, a lack of discipline or ineffective teachers and administrators source: http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/red_flags.cfm?issue_type=education
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:59 am
if there was a fire or they got in a car accident then it would ne very hard to unbuckle all of the kinder graten and maybe first grade students buckles.. and the money which someone also said. Kids that fool around could also hurt themselves or each other with the buckle
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:11 pm
well public schools in my area are pretty bad and there arent many charter schools and the only magnet schools out here are for students in high school. Other then that you have a few private school but inorder to get your kids into one of them you have to live within the aloted school zone aka rich b***h land and you also have to dump about $30,000 a year for your kids to go there.
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