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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:37 am
I am going to have to agree with Skeksis on this one.
I have always believed that is you can't take full responsibility for your animal DON'T GET ONE! I love all animals, and I think it's important to have them in my life. Many would agree but even if you LOVE animals you shouldn't get one if you can't dedicate your time to it (training) neutral . I particularly don't think it's fair that people de-claw their animals for their lazyness towards the situation sad
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:13 pm
I see what you are saying about family problems preventing things and what-not... but is it really family problems that are preventing you from training a cat? or is it just lazyness?(not calling you lazy) just.. if it was a dog it would always be in your face and looking for attention.. a cat doesn't normally do that (at least not what I've seen unless you train it to love ya) .. so could it be that you just forgot about the cat because it wasn't in your face?? animals do things to get attention.. they're just like you and me .. but they don't talk... can you blame them? I wouldn't want to comunicate with my owner unless it was.. "I'm hungry" lol but even then... that's why they'll stand by their dish until you give them food lol
it all comes back to responsibility and attention for your animals doesn't it?
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:30 pm
Skeksis Lady Nekochan The only question I would like to ask is when you suggest that I would have trained the cat? In the time my parents announced the divorce, we spent our little time left in the house packing and finding a new place to live. My cat was outside at the time. We could not bring him in until we moved, which was the only time we would have had to "train" him. My bird had been in the house for years, and there was little, if any, way to separate them in the household while the cat was taught things.
As for the attacking with the teeth, my cat had made a bad habit outside of batting and clawing animals to death. I'd seen it with numerous chipmunks, sadly. The moment they'd stand and walk away, he'd jump on them again. The most he grabbed it with his teeth was when I tried to stop him, when he picked it up to drag it out of my reach. Our cats' first instincts have always been to bat at things with their paws, not grab them with their teeth.
As for violence, I certainly can't say that it made my cat moer violent. If anything, our other, not-declawed cat is more aggressive. If anything, my cat is the less aggressive and more level-headed of the two, and he adjusted to house life much more quickly than our other cat. That, however, probably has more to do with personality. I highly doubt that it would have been impossible to have kept the two seperated until they were used to each other. Not exceptionally easy perhaps, but then people are capable of coping and dealing with situations a lot more difficult than keeping a cat and bird seperated. Sure, declawing is easier but I think it's a cop out and a completely rotten choice to make. Like pulling a ferret's teeth for biting. Again, I'd have to ask you where and how.
The apartment we moved to had the following: a bathroom, two bedrooms, and a connected entrance/livingroom/kitchen with no walls or doors between them.
We can't keep my parakeet in bedrooms. I tried when she was little, and she was having major social issues and panic attacks, especially at night. The vets advised us to move her to a common part of the house, like a living room, and we did. She was fine.
What could we have done? It certainly wouldn't have been right to keep my cat, who was used to a full garage and endless outside, in a tiny bathroom or miniscule bedroom. It would have had to have been my room, not my brother's more spacious one, because we already had his guinea pig and my gerbil in there (possible meals for him).
I can't sleep with anything that makes noise in my room, and I never have been able to....I'm an insomniac who takes about an hour to fall asleep anyway, and my cat, being what he is, doesn't sleep at night. He jumps up and down from beds to the ground to windowsills. There has been one time in my life where I've fallen asleep with him, but that was early morning, when he's eaten breakfast and feeling lazy. Even then, it was maybe a half hour or so.
Suggestions?
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:06 am
Lady Nekochan Skeksis Lady Nekochan The only question I would like to ask is when you suggest that I would have trained the cat? In the time my parents announced the divorce, we spent our little time left in the house packing and finding a new place to live. My cat was outside at the time. We could not bring him in until we moved, which was the only time we would have had to "train" him. My bird had been in the house for years, and there was little, if any, way to separate them in the household while the cat was taught things.
As for the attacking with the teeth, my cat had made a bad habit outside of batting and clawing animals to death. I'd seen it with numerous chipmunks, sadly. The moment they'd stand and walk away, he'd jump on them again. The most he grabbed it with his teeth was when I tried to stop him, when he picked it up to drag it out of my reach. Our cats' first instincts have always been to bat at things with their paws, not grab them with their teeth.
As for violence, I certainly can't say that it made my cat moer violent. If anything, our other, not-declawed cat is more aggressive. If anything, my cat is the less aggressive and more level-headed of the two, and he adjusted to house life much more quickly than our other cat. That, however, probably has more to do with personality. I highly doubt that it would have been impossible to have kept the two seperated until they were used to each other. Not exceptionally easy perhaps, but then people are capable of coping and dealing with situations a lot more difficult than keeping a cat and bird seperated. Sure, declawing is easier but I think it's a cop out and a completely rotten choice to make. Like pulling a ferret's teeth for biting. Again, I'd have to ask you where and how.
The apartment we moved to had the following: a bathroom, two bedrooms, and a connected entrance/livingroom/kitchen with no walls or doors between them.
We can't keep my parakeet in bedrooms. I tried when she was little, and she was having major social issues and panic attacks, especially at night. The vets advised us to move her to a common part of the house, like a living room, and we did. She was fine.
What could we have done? It certainly wouldn't have been right to keep my cat, who was used to a full garage and endless outside, in a tiny bathroom or miniscule bedroom. It would have had to have been my room, not my brother's more spacious one, because we already had his guinea pig and my gerbil in there (possible meals for him).
I can't sleep with anything that makes noise in my room, and I never have been able to....I'm an insomniac who takes about an hour to fall asleep anyway, and my cat, being what he is, doesn't sleep at night. He jumps up and down from beds to the ground to windowsills. There has been one time in my life where I've fallen asleep with him, but that was early morning, when he's eaten breakfast and feeling lazy. Even then, it was maybe a half hour or so.
Suggestions?I would have made the sacrifice of sleep and kept him in my room until he was trained. Simple. It may not have been entirely pleasant for him at first but it would not have been a permanent arrangement. And, he would not have been confined permanently. Could the bird not have gone into a cage/other room while your cat stretched his legs until he could be trusted to share a space? Certainly that has worked for many people in the past. Or I would have shifted the cavy and gerbil into the smaller room and put the cat into the larger bedroom. As said before, it wouldn't have been permanent so there would have been no harm done. Unlike cutting out claws, which is very permanent. Like you I have trouble sleeping whilst other things are in the same room. When my oldest ferret was sick though that did not stop me from having her in there so I could moniter and medicate her throughout the night. Hey, those weeks sucked a bit but that's what pets are all about; taking responsibility and making sacrifices when it is required. I would rather sacrifice my sleep than my pet's toes. But I guess it would have been easier to have left her in another room, even if it would have been colder and therefore a danger to her damaged lungs. Tell, me, do you also support defanging and debarking for similar 'special' situations? I am sorry if I come across as hostile. Yet no one has ever managed to give me a justifiable reason to do that to a cat.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:44 am
I agree so much with you, Skeksis, I envy you for saying it first smile Seriously, people, stop assuming your financial situation is more important than the cat. Honestly, would anyone who was willing to cut off their cat's fingers be willing to cut off pieces of their own body to pay the rent? No. Besides, cats can use just about any part of their bodies as weapons if they are in a particular weapony mood. (Love Lem S)
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:18 pm
Skeksis I would have made the sacrifice of sleep and kept him in my room until he was trained. Simple. It may not have been entirely pleasant for him at first but it would not have been a permanent arrangement. And, he would not have been confined permanently. Could the bird not have gone into a cage/other room while your cat stretched his legs until he could be trusted to share a space? Certainly that has worked for many people in the past. Or I would have shifted the cavy and gerbil into the smaller room and put the cat into the larger bedroom. As said before, it wouldn't have been permanent so there would have been no harm done. Unlike cutting out claws, which is very permanent. Like you I have trouble sleeping whilst other things are in the same room. When my oldest ferret was sick though that did not stop me from having her in there so I could moniter and medicate her throughout the night. Hey, those weeks sucked a bit but that's what pets are all about; taking responsibility and making sacrifices when it is required. I would rather sacrifice my sleep than my pet's toes. But I guess it would have been easier to have left her in another room, even if it would have been colder and therefore a danger to her damaged lungs. Tell, me, do you also support defanging and debarking for similar 'special' situations? I am sorry if I come across as hostile. Yet no one has ever managed to give me a justifiable reason to do that to a cat. Actually, the gerbil and guinea pig were in my brother's room because I could not sleep with them in my room. In general, the manner of my sleeplessness is not something I feel necessary to explain fully or expect people to understand. The guinea pig wouldn't have lasted more than a few hours, even if we tried; my brother is her "dad," and she rarely tolerates any contact at all from anyone else. She tends to gnaw her bars very loudly when she wants something, whatever time of night it mayb be, and he's the only one that seems to be able to understand what she needs. She also used his room to run around and get exercise regularly, which would not have been possible in mine. For many other reason, my brother and I could not switch rooms.
The cat would never tolerate being behind a door. He's always been one to "knock" on them with his paws and throw a fit when he wants in a room, let alone if he was being confined to one. He also learned how to open any doors not left securely shut as tightly as physically possible. Besides that, I do not see how confining him for days in one room would keep him from trying to get at our bird the time day he was let into the rest of the apartment.
As for the bird, she was already in a cage; that was not the problem. She is far too bold for her own sake, preferring to come up to something nearby rather than back away from it; this includes the paws and mouths of curious cats. As I mentioned earlier, incidents like this almost killed her several years ago with one of our dogs.
Pokemasterat - This is not an issue of "paying the rent." This was an issue of dumping a cat or keeping him. The apartment would not have let our cat in with full claws. The apartment was theonly choice of living space available that I can recall, especially at such short notice. Would you prefer I get rid of teh cat? He had already lost the companionship of his brother less than a year before and was now losing the friendship of our two dog as well, since they were staying with my dad. Would it have been more fair to sever his ties completely with the rest of the family he'd grown up with? There would have been no gaurantee that any stranger who might buy him from a shelter would have not declaw him. And it would pain me to think of giving him up like that, especially since it took him years of being indoors before he finally let anyone besides my immediate family touch him.
As for the comment about the fingers... Personally, I would readily give up part of my hands if the only other option was to never see my family again. However, my personal choices for myself are not a part of this.
To be perfectly, honest, I do resent the fact that people are treating this like it was a choice I fully made. The choice was not in my hands at all, in fact, but I still cannot see any other possibility to it. I was essentially part of a frantic rush to get out of the house before my dad decided we weren't allowed back in. A lot of things were lost to my dad in that divorce, including some other pets whom I still regret not having with us and wish I could have taken. I'm not saying I'm "special" or deserve "special treatment." I'm merely stating that the only other real option at this point would be abandoning my cat at a shelter. It was difficult enough for us to find an apartment that allowed animals at all.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:47 am
I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
It's not something that I could ever do to a friend, no matter what.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:28 am
Dread Dionaea I'm not sure if you know this, but declawing removes the first part of the digit. Look at your finger. See how it's joined in three parts? Imagine if your finger was sliced off at the first line. Then imagine what life would be like if you didn't have that part of your finger. You wouldn't grip as well, type as well, eat as well, or be as happy. Think about how acrobatic cats are. They can't grip, climb, hunt, or run as well. How nice is that? Very True I agree with every word.
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:21 am
It is my opinion that you should not get an animal if you cannot deal with the responsibility with having one. Cats claws are included in the whole cat package. If you don't want to deal with inconvenience of the behavior or train it then don't get the animal. There are other options such as using soft paws and training. The only possible way I could think would merit ripping a cats claws off was if it have some type of health issue or rare disease that having its claws would prevent it from being healthy or having a livable life, I cannot think of a case.
This reminds me of the one idiot who walked into my work place and seriously asked me if we file dog teeth because his dogs teeth were too sharp. I would love to tie that person down and whip out my dremel.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:51 pm
Dread Dionaea I'm not sure if you know this, but declawing removes the first part of the digit. Look at your finger. See how it's joined in three parts? Imagine if your finger was sliced off at the first line. Then imagine what life would be like if you didn't have that part of your finger. You wouldn't grip as well, type as well, eat as well, or be as happy. Think about how acrobatic cats are. They can't grip, climb, hunt, or run as well. How nice is that? Thank you so much for saying that. I work at a animal hospital and it hurts to see people do that. The doctors at my work will only do it as a last result but I don't like it at all. I say find another way.
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:25 pm
what i like doing is getting caps for their claws when they are younger and they cant scratch so they will stop. That way you dont have to get all your stuff scratched up but you wont hurt them
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