TKD question.

[Mangafairy]

Keyboard Warrior

Uriko1.0

I read that all belts were white, and as the more you worked and trained the dirtyer they got until you trained long enough and got a black belt, they took that idea and used it in a rank system, cool hu?

This is a martial arts urban legend. It just doesn't make sense with how neat and clean the Japanese(as well as the majority of Asians) liked everything. A dirty garment just wouldn't be tolerated.

But if, as some people believe, that MA originated from farmers and their need to defend themselves then these lower-class people would not be held at a high cleanliness level. But I can see your view.  

[Shuma-Gorath]

Mangafairy

Keyboard Warrior

Uriko1.0

I read that all belts were white, and as the more you worked and trained the dirtyer they got until you trained long enough and got a black belt, they took that idea and used it in a rank system, cool hu?

This is a martial arts urban legend. It just doesn't make sense with how neat and clean the Japanese(as well as the majority of Asians) liked everything. A dirty garment just wouldn't be tolerated.

But if, as some people believe, that MA originated from farmers and their need to defend themselves then these lower-class people would not be held at a high cleanliness level. But I can see your view.

Martial Arts developed from farmers? No. And for christsakes, the belt system was introduced by Kano, who was in JUDO.  

[Mangafairy]

Shuma-Gorath

Mangafairy

Keyboard Warrior

Uriko1.0

I read that all belts were white, and as the more you worked and trained the dirtyer they got until you trained long enough and got a black belt, they took that idea and used it in a rank system, cool hu?

This is a martial arts urban legend. It just doesn't make sense with how neat and clean the Japanese(as well as the majority of Asians) liked everything. A dirty garment just wouldn't be tolerated.

But if, as some people believe, that MA originated from farmers and their need to defend themselves then these lower-class people would not be held at a high cleanliness level. But I can see your view.

Martial Arts developed from farmers? No. And for christsakes, the belt system was introduced by Kano, who was in JUDO.

Where did you learn that, if you can support it please provide a link so I can read it too. Martial arts were develope by higher class people to defend themselves (or rather other people would learn it to defend them), then the common folk created methods of defending themselves and weapons, do you know weapon history?

The tonfa- were corn/ wheat wheel handles, handles used in the grain milling process, and were readily available to just about anyone.

The nunchuka- rice flails or others believe that it originated from a horse bridle.

The sickle or scythe- a common tool in the rice fields of Asia. Called the Kama, used to chop down rice.

The jo, bo staff- Often simply a broom handle, some people also believe that it could be from an oar, as boats were very easy travel and sombody sitting in a boat all day could use it as an easy weapon. (Although, my first jo staff was a broom handle biggrin )

All these weapons and more are used in most martial-arts, and they all originated from common farming tools. There is also very valid reasoning for this, in Japan (for example0 only high class people were aloud to study sword work and later swords were banned, hence the common folk adapted whatever they could. Because these were banned special techniques passed only through familys were going to be lost so they were taught to the geisha and put into dances, that is why, if you watch a gaisha dance you will recognise some movements. cool  

[Shuma-Gorath]

Mangafairy

Shuma-Gorath

Mangafairy

Keyboard Warrior

Uriko1.0

I read that all belts were white, and as the more you worked and trained the dirtyer they got until you trained long enough and got a black belt, they took that idea and used it in a rank system, cool hu?

This is a martial arts urban legend. It just doesn't make sense with how neat and clean the Japanese(as well as the majority of Asians) liked everything. A dirty garment just wouldn't be tolerated.

But if, as some people believe, that MA originated from farmers and their need to defend themselves then these lower-class people would not be held at a high cleanliness level. But I can see your view.

Martial Arts developed from farmers? No. And for christsakes, the belt system was introduced by Kano, who was in JUDO.

Where did you learn that, if you can support it please provide a link so I can read it too. Martial arts were develope by higher class people to defend themselves (or rather other people would learn it to defend them), then the common folk created methods of defending themselves and weapons, do you know weapon history?

The tonfa- were corn/ wheat wheel handles, handles used in the grain milling process, and were readily available to just about anyone.

The nunchuka- rice flails or others believe that it originated from a horse bridle.

The sickle or scythe- a common tool in the rice fields of Asia. Called the Kama, used to chop down rice.

The jo, bo staff- Often simply a broom handle, some people also believe that it could be from an oar, as boats were very easy travel and sombody sitting in a boat all day could use it as an easy weapon. (Although, my first jo staff was a broom handle biggrin )

All these weapons and more are used in most martial-arts, and they all originated from common farming tools. There is also very valid reasoning for this, in Japan (for example0 only high class people were aloud to study sword work and later swords were banned, hence the common folk adapted whatever they could. Because these were banned special techniques passed only through familys were going to be lost so they were taught to the geisha and put into dances, that is why, if you watch a gaisha dance you will recognise some movements. cool

http://www.judoinfo.com/obi.htm
http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/beltcolors.html (this one, a Shotokan instructor tells how Kano introduced it.)
http://www.kiski-karate.com/belt_system.htm
http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/Belts/BeltHistory.htm

And again, think about what you're saying. This is a bunch of farmers who didn't have a lot of time other then for *gasp* farming. It would've taken forever to develop those types of skills while continuing their ordinary lives. It's the same bullshit as Ninjutsu. The people who were into warfare created this s**t, not a bunch of yahoo peasants. THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME.

Now, where do YOU get your history so that I may read?  

[Keyboard Warrior]

Mangafairy

All these weapons and more are used in most JAPANESE BASED martial-arts, and they all originated from common farming tools.

Bolded = correction  

[Mangafairy]

Shuma-Gorath

Mangafairy

Shuma-Gorath

Mangafairy

Keyboard Warrior

Uriko1.0

I read that all belts were white, and as the more you worked and trained the dirtyer they got until you trained long enough and got a black belt, they took that idea and used it in a rank system, cool hu?

This is a martial arts urban legend. It just doesn't make sense with how neat and clean the Japanese(as well as the majority of Asians) liked everything. A dirty garment just wouldn't be tolerated.

But if, as some people believe, that MA originated from farmers and their need to defend themselves then these lower-class people would not be held at a high cleanliness level. But I can see your view.

Martial Arts developed from farmers? No. And for christsakes, the belt system was introduced by Kano, who was in JUDO.

Where did you learn that, if you can support it please provide a link so I can read it too. Martial arts were develope by higher class people to defend themselves (or rather other people would learn it to defend them), then the common folk created methods of defending themselves and weapons, do you know weapon history?

The tonfa- were corn/ wheat wheel handles, handles used in the grain milling process, and were readily available to just about anyone.

The nunchuka- rice flails or others believe that it originated from a horse bridle.

The sickle or scythe- a common tool in the rice fields of Asia. Called the Kama, used to chop down rice.

The jo, bo staff- Often simply a broom handle, some people also believe that it could be from an oar, as boats were very easy travel and sombody sitting in a boat all day could use it as an easy weapon. (Although, my first jo staff was a broom handle biggrin )

All these weapons and more are used in most martial-arts, and they all originated from common farming tools. There is also very valid reasoning for this, in Japan (for example0 only high class people were aloud to study sword work and later swords were banned, hence the common folk adapted whatever they could. Because these were banned special techniques passed only through familys were going to be lost so they were taught to the geisha and put into dances, that is why, if you watch a gaisha dance you will recognise some movements. cool

http://www.judoinfo.com/obi.htm
http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/beltcolors.html (this one, a Shotokan instructor tells how Kano introduced it.)
http://www.kiski-karate.com/belt_system.htm
http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/Belts/BeltHistory.htm

And again, think about what you're saying. This is a bunch of farmers who didn't have a lot of time other then for *gasp* farming. It would've taken forever to develop those types of skills while continuing their ordinary lives. It's the same bullshit as Ninjutsu. The people who were into warfare created this s**t, not a bunch of yahoo peasants. THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME.

Now, where do YOU get your history so that I may read?

Of course they did have time! Especially in winter when the land is hard and few crops can be grown. You have not given proof of your misplaced belief of where martial arts originated from, just belts. As for websites, I don't know many I tend to read books on it more, but i can find you some sites if you desire about where/who martial-arts were created by:

http://www.asianartscenter.com/kobu.htm
http://www.evma.net/ (It is a club website so you only nead to read the bit at the beginning.)

I have also decided to add this part of history about the weapons banning mentioned earlier from http://www.tradka.org.uk/nakama_do.htm:

'The Banning Of Weapons


Around 1470, the collapse of the Sho Dynasty gave rise to a period of political turbulence that was ended only by the establishment of a new (also Sho) dynasty in 1477. The new king, Sho Shin, had to deal with the rebellious war lords who were firmly entrenched in their castles throughout the island. One of his first moves was to ban the carrying of swords by anyone, noble or peasant. He then ordered the collection of all weapons, which were to be placed under royal control at his castle in Shuri. Finally, he charged that all nobles, now unarmed, to come and live next to him in the royal capital.


This policy of disarming and de-casting of rebellious warlords in Okinawa predates the same actions on mainland Japan that were carried out in the sword edicts of Toyotomi in 1586 and in the Tokugawa Shoguns orders for the warlords to assemble in his capital in 1634.


Typical of the nature of the relationship between China and Japan the Shogun did not force the Okinawans to give up their tributary relationship with the Chinese. On the contrary, he forced the Okinawans to maintain a façade of

loyalty to the Chinese. Indirect contact with the Chinese, which the Japanese both wanted and needed, was maintained through Okinawa.


After the Okinawans were annexed to Japan in 1609, the Japanese maintained the ban on carrying weapons and kept the nobility restricted to Shuri city. Japanese samurai were, however, allowed to carry their weapons there. The ban on the natives carrying weapons remained in force throughout Okinawa’s subsequent history.


In Okinawa today, most Karate masters believe that the banning of weapons by one of their first kings was not an act of suppression, but one of sublime wisdom.'


Martial arts are simply different and were created with different purposes, in a country at war they may have been created for war and in a country full of theivs it would be created to fight against theivs.

Although, I do tend to consider Uriko1.0 view on the belts as a myth although it is a charming bit of folklore!  

[The Draken]

If anyone is wondering, I just wanted to post an update.
I know a lot more about martial arts than I did before (obviously).
And I think my school is exactly what I want. I realized that I want to do martial arts not for the physical as much as the mental aspect. The fitness and the techniques are great, but I find that the mental aspect is a better benefiet.
Thanks for all your help, guys. This guild helped me figure out what is best for me (Of course, so did my own school and my mind, but that's besides the point). smile
And I also find my school to be very optimal.