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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:00 pm
Well, there's a lot of papers and s**t about it that you can find online, plus I'm bringing my personal experiences into it.
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:21 pm
Junior~Mints it actually helps for sleep as well. 3nodding It's a ******** magical cure-all! It pretty much gets rid of anything. Sleep. Insomnia. Stress. Anxiety. But watch out for bleeding and carpal tunnel. Plus, any blurred vision or blindness experienced is probably temporary. rofl I would love to hear some of the subcultures you covered in your paper. Maybe you'll have a classification for me.
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
I didn't really get into specifics with the subcultures, just providing examples in relation to what sparked the cultures to form, change, or bring in new members.
Like for music, I mentioned ravers and emo kids. For beliefs, I brought up punks. For style, I brought up goths. I might post the paper here once I'm done with it. Due tomorrow, gotta get that last page done!
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:09 am
King of Calhoun Junior~Mints it actually helps for sleep as well. 3nodding It's a ******** magical cure-all! It pretty much gets rid of anything. Sleep. Insomnia. Stress. Anxiety. But watch out for bleeding and carpal tunnel. Plus, any blurred vision or blindness experienced is probably temporary. rofl I would love to hear some of the subcultures you covered in your paper. Maybe you'll have a classification for me. It also helps cure headaches for women 3nodding Although the first priority is to convince your woman to go with the sex WHILE in the state of having a headache >_>
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:38 pm
Father Knows Best ~ King of Calhoun Junior~Mints it actually helps for sleep as well. 3nodding It's a ******** magical cure-all! It pretty much gets rid of anything. Sleep. Insomnia. Stress. Anxiety. But watch out for bleeding and carpal tunnel. Plus, any blurred vision or blindness experienced is probably temporary. rofl I would love to hear some of the subcultures you covered in your paper. Maybe you'll have a classification for me. It also helps cure headaches for women 3nodding Although the first priority is to convince your woman to go with the sex WHILE in the state of having a headache >_> Ow, s**t. Beforehand, the extra 'stress' makes your head feel worse...
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:38 pm
Right, so here's my term paper. The Formation and Continued Existence of Dominant Suburban Subcultures A walk through an average high school in modern suburban America will reveal a distinct social separation within the student body. Whereas in the adult world, such separation is usually a result of economic standing or race, the situation within a high school is entirely dependent on groups called “subcultures.” Doubtless everyone has experienced the phenomenon of subcultures some time during their lives, but most are ignorant to the cause that forms and incites other to join these subcultures. Current Definitions of Subculture A subculture is “is a set of people with distinct sets of behavior and beliefs that differentiate them from a larger culture of which they are a part” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). At face value, this would seem to be an accurate, all-encompassing description. It may be, but only if one were to look at the whole of things, and not delve deeper into the subject matter. A subculture can be defined by anything from aesthetic appearances, to inner thoughts, to sexual activities. Pinning down a single definition that properly gives credit to the word is difficult, as the subject is unfathomably large. In most cases, the subculture strives to be different, “in opposition to the mainstream trends of their culture” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). A few notable exceptions exist, but the majority of the dominant subcultures attempt to separate themselves from the mainstream. Beliefs About Formation of Subcultures In an effort to explain the formation and division of individual subcultures, many experts dismiss the development as being a natural part of our changing times. They claim it to be a product of nothing except peer pressure, and the desire to belong. (McCracken) Despite the majority of reports stating similar things, those looking at the big picture, instead of investigating closer, typically hold such a view. To truly understand the root of the separations in modern teenagers, one must go forward and make inquiries, actually dwell in the culture for a time. In opposition to the majority, Mark Tittley says, “A subculture group forms when the larger culture fails to meet the needs of a particular group of people” (Tittley, subcult1). This description is more accurate than the generally accepted “peer pressure” model. If the former were the rule when it came to subcultures, there would not be so many new ones forming almost every year. McCracken may have hit the nail on the head when he said, “all these new styles of self-presentation, activity, and outlook are really the expression of age and class hostilities. Teens are being transgressive.” The main driving force behind the development of new subcultures is a young person’s desire to be different. The act of seeking out and joining or creating a new subculture “is about individualism - an expanding degree of separation of individuals from their traditional ties and restrictions” (Tittley, subcult1). Teenagers hit high school at nearly the exact same age that they begin fully realizing their independence. They strive to be different from their parents, different from each other, and different from what they see in magazines, on billboards, and on television. Commercialization and Evolution Despite the best laid plans of mice and men (or, in this case, subcultures), Wikipedia’s entry on subcultures states that “[subcultures’] style (particularly clothing and music) may often be adopted by mass culture for commercial purposes, as businesses will often seek to capitalize on the subversive allure of the subculture in search of cool.” Such a statement rings true for almost every dominant subculture in existence, with the exception of a rare few. The program “Merchants of Cool” stands as a testament to that, completely backing up what the Wikipedia entry says. Where the program differs from the Wikipedia entry is in the detailing of the evolution of subcultures. “This process of cultural appropriation may often result in the death or evolution of the subculture, as its members adopt new styles which are alien to the mainstream…In this sense, many subcultures can be seen to be constantly evolving, as their members attempt to remain one step ahead of the dominant culture. In turn, this process provides a constant stream of styles which may be commercially adopted” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). In this area, Wikipedia succeeds where many others fail. Merchants of Cool looked at the commercialization of subcultures, as well as the development of total counter-cultures that are essentially 100% unmarketable, but it fails to observe the evolution of current subcultures in an attempt to stay ahead of the market. Subcultures and the Distinction Between Them Grant McCracken states that “many of these groups engage in protest, but what is interesting is how different (and internally coherent) each protest is.” This is an important distinction to make, and is vital to understanding the formation and existence of these subcultures. Too often are young men and women who are trying to be different lumped into one category, despite the obvious differences between each group. Regardless of having the same ultimate goal, each group’s means to the end is almost entirely independent of one another. McCracken goes on to say, “To explain all these teen subcultures as the same act of protest is to generalize just when we need to be particularizing. It is to sacrifice the ethnographically illuminating for the glib larger truth.” This statement is the perfect truth when considering any angle of subcultures. Where oftentimes, a broad view of things is necessary, subcultures are one of the few areas in which close examination is celebrated, and indeed, necessary. In the hectic world of subcultures, identifying each individual subculture is a daunting task. Despite this, much of the time, the subcultures can be identified by the music the subject listens to. “Most subculture groups could be identified with a specific music genre and in some instances music was the defining characteristic around which the group was formed (such as with the following subcultures: Ravers, Metalheads, Homeboys, Ethno-hippies, Goths, Technos, Rastas and Punks). In other communities music is a key feature, but another factor would be the key characteristic, such as with Bladers, Bikers, Skaters, Surfers, etc.)” (Tittley, subcult1) This distinction is vital to understanding subcultures. Music has an influence on everything from a person’s emotions to their behavior. Should two people take a liking to the same genre of music, it is understandable that both would develop similar emotional make-ups, as well as similar behavioral patterns. Add on top of that the fact that similar taste in music will, in all likelihood, draw the two individuals together, it comes as no surprise that they will wind up with the same habits of dress, fun, and social responses. Limitations of Understanding The number one problem facing the research and understanding of modern subcultures is the age gap. Current research, as well as attempted understanding, is done entirely by men and women typically over the age of thirty. Such an age puts at least a ten-year gap between their current situation and their personal high school years. With this comes a completely lack of understanding, as many researchers have forgotten what it was like for themselves at that age. In most research, a certain degree of objectiveness is not only suggested, but is crucial to the quality of the end product. On the subject of subcultures, one must have a connection to the age group, whether through personal experience, or simply living inside the setting for a significant amount of time. The latter brings up another obstacle in the research of subcultures. Immersing oneself in the miniature culture of a high school setting is bordering on, if not completely, impossible to do for anyone over the age of twenty-five. Around twenty-five, people seem to suddenly lose the connection with the younger generation. They will be alienated by the members of the various subcultures, and completely ignored, rendering it almost impossible to do effective research. Research on this subject must be performed from within, not from a distance. Since most researchers are past the comfort age of an average teenager, research thus far has been spotty and inconsistent at best. Researches have tried to fix this problem by generating focus groups. The problem with focus groups when it comes to subcultures is twofold. Primarily, it suffers the same problem with any focus group. That is to say that no focus group is ever truly representative. In dealing with subcultures, one may intend to select a goth, but instead select an emo. Second, a focus group comprised of teenagers is hardly ever effective, as there are always things, some of which are very important, that teenagers will hold back from adults, even if they don’t know them on a personal level. There are driving forces behind their careful selection of a group to fall into that they simply won’t reveal to older researchers. There are a number of potential solutions to the latter problem, but the most viable one is to find the most mature, willing, and able teenager as possible, and use them to study the focus groups. The groups, consisting of people in the same general age group, will be much more responsive to someone closer to their own age. Not only will they purvey information more clearly, but they will also have a more relaxed demeanor, allowing observation of their natural tendencies. The former problem, however, has no foreseeable solution. It has existed with the focus group model of research since it’s conception, and it is likely that it will remain steadfast until the end of time. The final problem facing research in the area of subcultures emerges from the seclusion that each subculture engages in. Unless one were to actually become part of each subculture, there would be no way to learn precisely what makes each one tick. Every subculture has something that drives them to band together and act the way they do that they will never reveal to somebody outside of the group, regardless of age or position. Unfortunately, this means that the only even remotely effective way of studying these groups is to use smaller focus groups, which as stated before, have numerous problems of their own. Forming of New Subcultures, And Joining of Existing Ones The formation of new subcultures can be brought about by several influences or even incidents. Teenagers are inherently impressionable, and the slightest thing may cause them to feel alienated from existing groups, and strive to create their own, all while recruiting other members. 1. BeliefsBeliefs play a large role in several dominant subcultures, yet in others, the sharing of beliefs between members may be almost non-existent. The primary current example of this is the punk. Originating in the early eighties, they believe that anarchy is the most effective form of government, yet also believe that pure equality should exist, and that wars should not be fought. At the same time though, they also will not hesitate to defend themselves using force. This interesting, seemingly oxymoronic belief system is almost completely unique to punks, as the majority of the subcultures, if they do follow a system of beliefs, have a system that compliments itself, as opposed to contradicting itself. 2. MusicPossibly the largest influence on modern subcultures is music. Every time a new genre of music is created, there will invariably be a subculture formed around it. It happened with rap (gangstas), electronic (ravers), emo (emos), and even industrial (goths). The most notable current example of this influence is the emo subculture. Despite that the emo subculture was formed a few short years after the punk subculture was, it remained mostly underground until the later half of the 1990s. It likely experienced such a surge in popularity after the “death” of the punk scene, which left many without a group to fall in with. 3. StyleThere are several subcultures (including goth, punk, and emo) that, while they have major roots elsewhere, another factor in their creation is the style associated with the subculture. Style is deeply rooted in the US’s economy and social structure, and it isn’t surprising that groups of similar beliefs or similar taste in music gravitate towards the same style of dress. 4. IndividualityOne of the biggest factors in the creation and joining of several major subcultures is the desire to be unique. Such subcultures include punk, emo, and goth, all of which have similar roots. Many teenagers are content with falling in with a group which dresses and behaves fairly normally, and won’t draw too much attention. On the other hand, there are also many who desire to be different than the next person, and they need a subculture which will support them. The fallacy behind this reasoning is that in struggling to become unique, they eventually join a group, rendering them no longer unique. While the group may be in the minority, there are still enough of them to form the group in the first place, halting the idea of the individuals within the group being unique. A fake motivational poster from despair.com says it best… 5. SuperiorityA slightly less obvious reason behind the drive to join or create a group to fit into is the sense of superiority some feel when part of something like that. Some individuals, who may or may not already have ego issues, join a group, and immediately declare their group to be superior to all the others, and take to treating members of other groups with disdain and generally act as though they were above everyone, minus those within the same group. Those who join subcultures that are known as “counter-cultures” typically hold such a belief. The most popular counter-culture is the goth subculture. Counter-cultures are categorized by their deliberate attempt to be different, and to shock the mainstream. To a lesser extent is punk, as it is mainly driven by beliefs, and raver, which is mainly driven by music. As the goth attempts to shock and separate with dark clothing and bizarre makeup, the punk attempts to do the same with multitudes of piercings and studded jackets, and the raver does so with his underground music scene and association with drugs. Understanding The world of the teenager is large and confusing, both to adults and to the teenagers themselves. At a time in their lives where their real social lives are just beginning, teenagers struggle to fit in, and associate with people they can relate to. Subcultures form because teenagers need them to get through high school, and possibly beyond. Even those who believe they don’t belong to a subculture always do, if the correct perspective is taken. The lack of understanding in this area stems from age gaps and assumption from the researchers. No matter how much research is done, it is likely that adults will never fully understand these subcultures, whether it be through blockading by teenagers, or because current subcultures are always evolving, and new ones are being created every year.
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:40 pm
CeludenDoctorStrange Right, so here's my term paper. The Formation and Continued Existence of Dominant Suburban Subcultures A walk through an average high school in modern suburban America will reveal a distinct social separation within the student body. Whereas in the adult world, such separation is usually a result of economic standing or race, the situation within a high school is entirely dependent on groups called “subcultures.” Doubtless everyone has experienced the phenomenon of subcultures some time during their lives, but most are ignorant to the cause that forms and incites other to join these subcultures. Current Definitions of Subculture A subculture is “is a set of people with distinct sets of behavior and beliefs that differentiate them from a larger culture of which they are a part” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). At face value, this would seem to be an accurate, all-encompassing description. It may be, but only if one were to look at the whole of things, and not delve deeper into the subject matter. A subculture can be defined by anything from aesthetic appearances, to inner thoughts, to sexual activities. Pinning down a single definition that properly gives credit to the word is difficult, as the subject is unfathomably large. In most cases, the subculture strives to be different, “in opposition to the mainstream trends of their culture” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). A few notable exceptions exist, but the majority of the dominant subcultures attempt to separate themselves from the mainstream. Beliefs About Formation of Subcultures In an effort to explain the formation and division of individual subcultures, many experts dismiss the development as being a natural part of our changing times. They claim it to be a product of nothing except peer pressure, and the desire to belong. (McCracken) Despite the majority of reports stating similar things, those looking at the big picture, instead of investigating closer, typically hold such a view. To truly understand the root of the separations in modern teenagers, one must go forward and make inquiries, actually dwell in the culture for a time. In opposition to the majority, Mark Tittley says, “A subculture group forms when the larger culture fails to meet the needs of a particular group of people” (Tittley, subcult1). This description is more accurate than the generally accepted “peer pressure” model. If the former were the rule when it came to subcultures, there would not be so many new ones forming almost every year. McCracken may have hit the nail on the head when he said, “all these new styles of self-presentation, activity, and outlook are really the expression of age and class hostilities. Teens are being transgressive.” The main driving force behind the development of new subcultures is a young person’s desire to be different. The act of seeking out and joining or creating a new subculture “is about individualism - an expanding degree of separation of individuals from their traditional ties and restrictions” (Tittley, subcult1). Teenagers hit high school at nearly the exact same age that they begin fully realizing their independence. They strive to be different from their parents, different from each other, and different from what they see in magazines, on billboards, and on television. Commercialization and Evolution Despite the best laid plans of mice and men (or, in this case, subcultures), Wikipedia’s entry on subcultures states that “[subcultures’] style (particularly clothing and music) may often be adopted by mass culture for commercial purposes, as businesses will often seek to capitalize on the subversive allure of the subculture in search of cool.” Such a statement rings true for almost every dominant subculture in existence, with the exception of a rare few. The program “Merchants of Cool” stands as a testament to that, completely backing up what the Wikipedia entry says. Where the program differs from the Wikipedia entry is in the detailing of the evolution of subcultures. “This process of cultural appropriation may often result in the death or evolution of the subculture, as its members adopt new styles which are alien to the mainstream…In this sense, many subcultures can be seen to be constantly evolving, as their members attempt to remain one step ahead of the dominant culture. In turn, this process provides a constant stream of styles which may be commercially adopted” (Wikipedia, Subcultures). In this area, Wikipedia succeeds where many others fail. Merchants of Cool looked at the commercialization of subcultures, as well as the development of total counter-cultures that are essentially 100% unmarketable, but it fails to observe the evolution of current subcultures in an attempt to stay ahead of the market. Subcultures and the Distinction Between Them Grant McCracken states that “many of these groups engage in protest, but what is interesting is how different (and internally coherent) each protest is.” This is an important distinction to make, and is vital to understanding the formation and existence of these subcultures. Too often are young men and women who are trying to be different lumped into one category, despite the obvious differences between each group. Regardless of having the same ultimate goal, each group’s means to the end is almost entirely independent of one another. McCracken goes on to say, “To explain all these teen subcultures as the same act of protest is to generalize just when we need to be particularizing. It is to sacrifice the ethnographically illuminating for the glib larger truth.” This statement is the perfect truth when considering any angle of subcultures. Where oftentimes, a broad view of things is necessary, subcultures are one of the few areas in which close examination is celebrated, and indeed, necessary. In the hectic world of subcultures, identifying each individual subculture is a daunting task. Despite this, much of the time, the subcultures can be identified by the music the subject listens to. “Most subculture groups could be identified with a specific music genre and in some instances music was the defining characteristic around which the group was formed (such as with the following subcultures: Ravers, Metalheads, Homeboys, Ethno-hippies, Goths, Technos, Rastas and Punks). In other communities music is a key feature, but another factor would be the key characteristic, such as with Bladers, Bikers, Skaters, Surfers, etc.)” (Tittley, subcult1) This distinction is vital to understanding subcultures. Music has an influence on everything from a person’s emotions to their behavior. Should two people take a liking to the same genre of music, it is understandable that both would develop similar emotional make-ups, as well as similar behavioral patterns. Add on top of that the fact that similar taste in music will, in all likelihood, draw the two individuals together, it comes as no surprise that they will wind up with the same habits of dress, fun, and social responses. Limitations of Understanding The number one problem facing the research and understanding of modern subcultures is the age gap. Current research, as well as attempted understanding, is done entirely by men and women typically over the age of thirty. Such an age puts at least a ten-year gap between their current situation and their personal high school years. With this comes a completely lack of understanding, as many researchers have forgotten what it was like for themselves at that age. In most research, a certain degree of objectiveness is not only suggested, but is crucial to the quality of the end product. On the subject of subcultures, one must have a connection to the age group, whether through personal experience, or simply living inside the setting for a significant amount of time. The latter brings up another obstacle in the research of subcultures. Immersing oneself in the miniature culture of a high school setting is bordering on, if not completely, impossible to do for anyone over the age of twenty-five. Around twenty-five, people seem to suddenly lose the connection with the younger generation. They will be alienated by the members of the various subcultures, and completely ignored, rendering it almost impossible to do effective research. Research on this subject must be performed from within, not from a distance. Since most researchers are past the comfort age of an average teenager, research thus far has been spotty and inconsistent at best. Researches have tried to fix this problem by generating focus groups. The problem with focus groups when it comes to subcultures is twofold. Primarily, it suffers the same problem with any focus group. That is to say that no focus group is ever truly representative. In dealing with subcultures, one may intend to select a goth, but instead select an emo. Second, a focus group comprised of teenagers is hardly ever effective, as there are always things, some of which are very important, that teenagers will hold back from adults, even if they don’t know them on a personal level. There are driving forces behind their careful selection of a group to fall into that they simply won’t reveal to older researchers. There are a number of potential solutions to the latter problem, but the most viable one is to find the most mature, willing, and able teenager as possible, and use them to study the focus groups. The groups, consisting of people in the same general age group, will be much more responsive to someone closer to their own age. Not only will they purvey information more clearly, but they will also have a more relaxed demeanor, allowing observation of their natural tendencies. The former problem, however, has no foreseeable solution. It has existed with the focus group model of research since it’s conception, and it is likely that it will remain steadfast until the end of time. The final problem facing research in the area of subcultures emerges from the seclusion that each subculture engages in. Unless one were to actually become part of each subculture, there would be no way to learn precisely what makes each one tick. Every subculture has something that drives them to band together and act the way they do that they will never reveal to somebody outside of the group, regardless of age or position. Unfortunately, this means that the only even remotely effective way of studying these groups is to use smaller focus groups, which as stated before, have numerous problems of their own. Forming of New Subcultures, And Joining of Existing Ones The formation of new subcultures can be brought about by several influences or even incidents. Teenagers are inherently impressionable, and the slightest thing may cause them to feel alienated from existing groups, and strive to create their own, all while recruiting other members. 1. BeliefsBeliefs play a large role in several dominant subcultures, yet in others, the sharing of beliefs between members may be almost non-existent. The primary current example of this is the punk. Originating in the early eighties, they believe that anarchy is the most effective form of government, yet also believe that pure equality should exist, and that wars should not be fought. At the same time though, they also will not hesitate to defend themselves using force. This interesting, seemingly oxymoronic belief system is almost completely unique to punks, as the majority of the subcultures, if they do follow a system of beliefs, have a system that compliments itself, as opposed to contradicting itself. 2. MusicPossibly the largest influence on modern subcultures is music. Every time a new genre of music is created, there will invariably be a subculture formed around it. It happened with rap (gangstas), electronic (ravers), emo (emos), and even industrial (goths). The most notable current example of this influence is the emo subculture. Despite that the emo subculture was formed a few short years after the punk subculture was, it remained mostly underground until the later half of the 1990s. It likely experienced such a surge in popularity after the “death” of the punk scene, which left many without a group to fall in with. 3. StyleThere are several subcultures (including goth, punk, and emo) that, while they have major roots elsewhere, another factor in their creation is the style associated with the subculture. Style is deeply rooted in the US’s economy and social structure, and it isn’t surprising that groups of similar beliefs or similar taste in music gravitate towards the same style of dress. 4. IndividualityOne of the biggest factors in the creation and joining of several major subcultures is the desire to be unique. Such subcultures include punk, emo, and goth, all of which have similar roots. Many teenagers are content with falling in with a group which dresses and behaves fairly normally, and won’t draw too much attention. On the other hand, there are also many who desire to be different than the next person, and they need a subculture which will support them. The fallacy behind this reasoning is that in struggling to become unique, they eventually join a group, rendering them no longer unique. While the group may be in the minority, there are still enough of them to form the group in the first place, halting the idea of the individuals within the group being unique. A fake motivational poster from despair.com says it best… 5. SuperiorityA slightly less obvious reason behind the drive to join or create a group to fit into is the sense of superiority some feel when part of something like that. Some individuals, who may or may not already have ego issues, join a group, and immediately declare their group to be superior to all the others, and take to treating members of other groups with disdain and generally act as though they were above everyone, minus those within the same group. Those who join subcultures that are known as “counter-cultures” typically hold such a belief. The most popular counter-culture is the goth subculture. Counter-cultures are categorized by their deliberate attempt to be different, and to shock the mainstream. To a lesser extent is punk, as it is mainly driven by beliefs, and raver, which is mainly driven by music. As the goth attempts to shock and separate with dark clothing and bizarre makeup, the punk attempts to do the same with multitudes of piercings and studded jackets, and the raver does so with his underground music scene and association with drugs. Understanding The world of the teenager is large and confusing, both to adults and to the teenagers themselves. At a time in their lives where their real social lives are just beginning, teenagers struggle to fit in, and associate with people they can relate to. Subcultures form because teenagers need them to get through high school, and possibly beyond. Even those who believe they don’t belong to a subculture always do, if the correct perspective is taken. The lack of understanding in this area stems from age gaps and assumption from the researchers. No matter how much research is done, it is likely that adults will never fully understand these subcultures, whether it be through blockading by teenagers, or because current subcultures are always evolving, and new ones are being created every year. tl; dr
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:44 pm
What Eternal said. Can you sum it up in five sentences?l
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:06 pm
Neo Turbo What Eternal said. Can you sum it up in five sentences?l Seriously. Wall of text is no good.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:30 am
Adults are no good at researching subcultures, because teenagers don't want anything to do with them.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:28 pm
CeludenSpiderJerusalem Adults are no good at researching subcultures, because teenagers don't want anything to do with them. Is that the summary of your text? eek
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:40 pm
Prega CeludenSpiderJerusalem Adults are no good at researching subcultures, because teenagers don't want anything to do with them. Is that the summary of your text? eek Yeah, those ******** adults just don't get us man!!! biggrin
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:33 am
King of Calhoun Prega CeludenSpiderJerusalem Adults are no good at researching subcultures, because teenagers don't want anything to do with them. Is that the summary of your text? eek Yeah, those ******** adults just don't get us man!!! biggrin Word! surprised
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:45 pm
Neo Turbo King of Calhoun Prega CeludenSpiderJerusalem Adults are no good at researching subcultures, because teenagers don't want anything to do with them. Is that the summary of your text? eek Yeah, those ******** adults just don't get us man!!! biggrin Word! surprised For Real. 3nodding
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