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 Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:39 pm
Sounds crazy, right? Admittedly, my friend and I devised this while completely pissed one night in the pub, but once sober it still made sense - so I figured it was worth talking about.
How can Free Will and Destiny be the same thing, I hear you ask? Well, it's very simple. If you adhere to the hypothesis that time is branching, i.e. every possible outcome from every possible set of circumstances produces a new, separate stream of time, then logically every single possible thing that could ever happen is played out, yes?
If everything that can possibly happen is played out, then everything is pre-determined. That's where Destiny fits in. What about Free Will? Well, we're at this point, yes? So, whatever decisions we made brought us to this branch, this point in time. Imagine it like this: at the moment of our birth, we are handed a map through existence, a map that shows us every route available. We then pick one and follow it. Every now and again we reach a crossroads, or a fork. We then pick which way to go. However, we technically go both ways, since, if every possibility is played out, another version of us decided to go the other way.
I'm probably not explaining it well, and if anyone has any trouble understanding me, I'll be happy to try and clarify - but there you have it. Free Will = Destiny.
By the way - hi there, I'm new. XD Not bad for my first post, eh?
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:30 pm
Very intresting, but it makes sence to me and I like how you explained it. ^^ Were reading the Odyssey in school right now and the debate of Free will and Destiny continues to come up in the classroom. This the only explaination so far that totally makes sence. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:36 pm
Faunia Very intresting, but it makes sence to me and I like how you explained it. ^^ Were reading the Odyssey in school right now and the debate of Free will and Destiny continues to come up in the classroom. This the only explaination so far that totally makes sence. 3nodding Well, thank you. ^_^ Be sure to cite me if you use my idea! XD
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:20 pm
CSquared Sounds crazy, right? Admittedly, my friend and I devised this while completely pissed one night in the pub, but once sober it still made sense - so I figured it was worth talking about. How can Free Will and Destiny be the same thing, I hear you ask? Well, it's very simple. If you adhere to the hypothesis that time is branching, i.e. every possible outcome from every possible set of circumstances produces a new, separate stream of time, then logically every single possible thing that could ever happen is played out, yes? If everything that can possibly happen is played out, then everything is pre-determined. That's where Destiny fits in. What about Free Will? Well, we're at this point, yes? So, whatever decisions we made brought us to this branch, this point in time. Imagine it like this: at the moment of our birth, we are handed a map through existence, a map that shows us every route available. We then pick one and follow it. Every now and again we reach a crossroads, or a fork. We then pick which way to go. However, we technically go both ways, since, if every possibility is played out, another version of us decided to go the other way. I'm probably not explaining it well, and if anyone has any trouble understanding me, I'll be happy to try and clarify - but there you have it. Free Will = Destiny. By the way - hi there, I'm new. XD Not bad for my first post, eh? another even more simple way to look at it is it is your destiny to have free will ^_^
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:19 pm
At first, I was reading the post, and I was like "WTF is he talking about?". But then the example of the map came along. I read it once, didn't get it, read it again, and then it clicked! Woo!
Anyway, it makes sense now. I agree with you that free will and destiny are the same. 3nodding Brilliancy.
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:08 pm
Well the way you put it seems to be the only logical way.
No matter what decision we make it's our destiny, obviously.
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:03 pm
i never thought much about the whole free will vs destiny thing but that is a good idea and makes a lot of sense
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:08 pm
That's not logic that's fatalism.
Free will is having a choice in our actions and suffering the consequences for them. Destiny is having an assigned outcome no matter what you do. If every sequence of choice changes the outcome then the outcome is not predestined. The outcome is the result of freewill up until the final choice.
Look at it this way:
1. Damned if you do - damned if you dont = destiny
2. Damned if you do - saved if you dont = free will
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:16 pm
Chief Chaos That's not logic that's fatalism. Free will is having a choice in our actions and suffering the consequences for them. Destiny is having an assigned outcome no matter what you do. If every sequence of choice changes the outcome then the outcome is not predestined. The outcome is the result of freewill up until the final choice. Look at it this way: 1. Damned if you do - damned if you dont = destiny 2. Damned if you do - saved if you dont = free will And when did I say we don't suffer the consequences? When was the last time you made a bad decision and DIDN'T suffer the consequences? I should probably clear this up - I don't personally believe in Destiny. But you know how your mind gets when inebriated, these kinds of topics spring up in conversations. I don't see how my explanation isn't Destiny, however. Your description: "Destiny is having an assigned outcome no matter what you do" makes no sense - since if your assigned path is pre-determined, you cannot choose what to do. All your decisions are already set out. What specific problems do you have with the idea? I'd be interested to talk about it.
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:35 pm
I have looked at destiny as this: "Destiny is an objective that has been made in each individuals life that marks the reason they exist. All Destinies are different, and they do not need to be fufilled. One's destiny is usually not noticed until it has been fufilled. At some points in life, depending on the circumstance, one may choose an alternate destiny to follow, but it doesn't hold the same fufillment as the original. Think of it as a fake path to follow, but a path none the less." Destiny is far more different than fate. Fate is saying that our lives are pre-determined as well as our decisions and the like. Destiny is a more subtle key in our lives. It doesn't always need to be followed, but doing so and completing it marks the climax of a person's life. Our free will makes us follow what we want. I do believe that each path is carried out, but once that path is made and different stream of time is made from it, then it no longer that person who follows that path, but rather a new entity similar to you is created in the process. Therefore, a new destiny can be made to be followed. Follow? In a branch on a tree, it splits off in different directions. The wood is the same, the type of tree is the same, but the branch may grow differently than the other, and the end piece will be different. Look at that end piece as if it was destiny. It changes with different paths. A new life has been created-similar to yours, but a new life- so a new destiny must be made. Free will is not the same as destiny to me. Free will is the ability to either follow your destiny, or not. Either way though, you do create destinies in the process. Altogether, you could say that free will is the source of destinies, but they aren't the same. I have a lot more on Destiny and the things that occur when it is fufilled, but that's a whole different topic. This is what I believe, and a lot of people probably won't see what I'm getting at, sweatdrop but I've tried anyways!
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:17 pm
That does make sense and you explained it perfectly
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:33 pm
good first post, i think you changed my mind completely! your right! biggrin
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