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Hawk_McKrakken

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:24 pm


That quite possibly has to be the hardest thing about German. We'll quite possibly need a native German to teach this to us...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:48 am


Hawk_McKrakken
That quite possibly has to be the hardest thing about German. We'll quite possibly need a native German to teach this to us...

Not really. There are 7 different forms or pluralisation, you just need to remember which one is pluralised in which fashion. I have a list of them in my German book if anyone would like to me transpose them.

WellzY


Chikiya

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:32 pm


lili of the lamplight
In terms of color, violet and purple are technically different... I ended up taking an entire semester on color theory in nineth grade...

Anyhow, how about a section on pluralization next? German plurals can be a bit unusual.
I was thinking about a section on pluralisation, but I just have no idea how to teach it, because I have never actually studied German, so I don't actually know the rules of pluralisation, it's something I just know.


WellzY
Hawk_McKrakken
That quite possibly has to be the hardest thing about German. We'll quite possibly need a native German to teach this to us...



Not really. There are 7 different forms or pluralisation, you just need to remember which one is pluralised in which fashion. I have a list of them in my German book if anyone would like to me transpose them.


WellzY, if you could do that, that would really help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:26 am


4: Die Pluralformen


In English, a plural is (usually) formed by simply adding an -s to the end of a noun. In German however, there are effectivly 10 different pluralisation patterns. Unfortunately, there is little in the way of rules when it comes to pluralising nouns, so it is best that nouns, when learnt, are also learnt with their plural form.

Gender is an important issue in German, but when a noun is pluralised, we can relax, because all German plurals are feminine (die).

Like in English, plurals may be used with the definite article (the/die), but not the indefinite article (a or an/eine).

A flowers? Doesn't sound right, does it? It's the same for German, so try to remember that.

The left-hand column is the plural form. The central column is the singular form, and the right-hand column is the English translation (in brackets, transliterations).

-e
die Telefone | das Telefon | -the telephone
die Berufe | der Beruf | -the profession/job/career
die Fotoapparate | der Fotoapparat | -the camera (die Kamera is also used)
die Handschuhe | die Handschuh | -the glove (hand-sock)
die Tishe | der Tisch | -the bag
die Tage | der Tag | -the day
die Probleme | das Problem | -the problem
die Flugzeuge | das Flugzeug | -the airplane (flight-stuff)
die Jahre | das Jahr | -the year

-"e
die Stühle | der Stuhl | -the chair
die Hüte | der Hut | -the hat
die Stöcke | der Stock | -the cane/plug
die Vorhänge | der Vorhang | -the blinds (infront-hanger)
die Reisepässe | der Reisepass | -the passport (travel-pass)
die Rucksäcke | der Rucksack | -the back-pack (back-sack)
die Söhne | der Sohn | -the son

-n
die Lampen | die Lampe | -the lamp
die Reisetachen | die Reisetasche | -the traveling bag (travel-bag)
die Brillen | die Brille | -the glasses
die Mützen | die Mütze | -the cap
die Toiletten | die Toilette | -the toilet
die Duschen | die Dusche | -the shower
die Badewannen | die Badewanne | -the bath/bathtub (bath-tub)
die Glühbirnen | die Glühbirne | -the light-bulb (pear-burn)
die Bettdecken | die Bettdecke | -the bed covers/sheets (bed-deckings)
die Reisegruppen | die Reisegruppe | -the travelling group
die Namen | der Name | -the name
die Straßen | der Straße | -the street
die Sprachen | die Sprache | -the language
die Steckdosen | der Steckdose | -the electricity plug/socket (stick-box)
die Jalousien | die Jalousien | -the curtains (French origin)

-en
die Frauen | die Frau | -the women
die Studenten | der Student | -the student
die Lektionen | die Lektion | -the lesson
die Betten | das Bett | -the bed
die Herren | der Herr | -the Sir/Mister
die Zahlen | die Zahl | -the time
die Unterschriffen | die Unterschriff | -the signature

This next form actually has some regularity. It ony applies to nouns that have been feminised with an -in suffix.

-nen
die Studentinnen | die Studentin | -the female student
die Lehrerinnen | die Lehrerin | -the female teacher
die Ärztinnen | die Ärztin | -the female doctor
die Reiseleiterinnen | die Reiseleiterin | -the female travel guide (travel-leader)

- (no change)
die Kissen | das Kissen | -the cussion/pillow
die Koffer | der Koffer | -the suitcase
die Schlüssel | der Schlüssel | -the key
die Stecker | der Stecker | -the plug
die Sessel | der Sessel | -the arm-chair
die Spiegel | der Spiegel | -the mirror
die Zimmer | das Zimmer | -the room
die Fenster | das Fenster | -the window
die Möbel | die Möbel | -the furniture

-"
die Mäntel | der Mantel | -the coat
die Mütter | die Mutter | -the mother
die Väter | der Vater | -the father
die Töchter | die Tochter | -the daughter

-er
die Bilder | das Bild | -the picture
die Kinder | das Kind | -the child

-"er
die Männer | der Mann | -the man
die Länder | das Land | -the land/country
die Bäder | das Bad | -the bath
die Bücher | das Buch | -the book
die Handtücher | das Handtuch | -the towel (hand-cloth/rag)

This last group usually relates to words that have been directly borrowed from English, not related words. As can be seen, they do not follow the spelling change from -y to -ie when such a word is pluralised.

-s
die Radios | das Radio
die Hotels | das Hotel
die Hobbys | das Hobby

Holy crap, I spent hours lining up all the columns so they'd look all nice and pretty, AND IT DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING!

I hope it's not too cluttered for people.

WellzY


Chikiya

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:38 am


Thank you so much, that's really helped, and you've done it so well! biggrin heart
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:20 pm


Chikiya
Thank you so much, that's really helped, and you've done it so well! biggrin heart

Danke shoen.

WellzY


Athran

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:39 pm


Anyone know of any test-like page where I can practice dat. case? I understand the theory, but I don't really recognise when to use it especially when it come to (k)ein words.
I just need lots of practice.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:40 am


It's almost the end of the month and we havn't even done verbs! I'll try to go over them.


Verbs.

Verb conjugation is usually very regular

To Live

I - live
you - live
he/she/it - lives
we - live
they - live

In German, it's more specific for each pro-noun, but it most cases is also regular.

Wohnen

ich - wohn-e
du - wohn-st
er/sie/es - wohn-t
wir - wohn-en
ihr - wohn-t
sie - wohn-en
Sie - wohn-en

This table is headed with the Infinitve form of the noun, similar to Englishes 'to live'. From this form, the other forms are derived. Ich always drops the n, du always drops the n, adds an -st. Er/sie/es just adds a -t. And so forth.

This version of 'to live' doesn't refer to the state of living, but rather a place of residence. For example.

I live in Australian.
Ich wohne in Australien.

Arbeiten - To Work

ich - arbeit-e
du - arbeit-e-st
er/sie/es - arbeit-e-t
wir - arbeit-en
ihr - arbeit-e-t
sie - arbeit-en
Sie - arbeit-en

Verbs with the stem ending -t or -d need an additional -e in the du, er/sie/es and ihr forms, for pronunciation purposes.

Heißen - To Be Called

ich - heiß-e
du - heiß-t
er/sie/es - heiß-t
wir - heiß-en
ihr - heiß-t
sie - heiß-en
Sie - heiß-en

Verbs ending in the stem -s, -ß, -x or -z do not take an -st but only -t ending for the es/sie/es form.

Segeln - To Sail

ich - segl-e
du - segel-st
er/sie/es - segel-t
wir - segel-n
ihr - segel-t
sie - segel-n
Sie - segel-n

Verbs ending in -eln drop an -e in the ich form.

The verbs 'to be' and 'to have' are irregular.

Sein - To Be

ich - bin
du - bist
er/sie/es - ist
wir - sind
ihr - seid
sie - sind
Sie - sind

Haben - To Have

ich - habe
du - hast
er/sie/es - hat
wir - haben
ihr - habt
sie - haben
Sie - haben

Some verbs have a vowel change. This only affects the du and er/sie/es form, while the remaining forms are regular.

Sprechen - To Speak

ich - sprech-e
du - sprich-st
er/sie/es - sprich-t
wir - sprechen
ihr - sprech-t
sie - sprechen
Sie - sprechen

Lesen - To Read

ich - les-e
du - lies-t
er/sie/es - lies-t
wir - lesen
ihr - les-t
sie - lesen
Sie - lesen

Very basic sentance structure is the same as very basic English sentance structure, seeing as they're both West-Germanic languages, so that's easy for all English natives!

It goes Subject, Verb, Object (SVO).

I(S) speak(V) German(O).

Ich(S) spreche(V) Deutsch(O).

(Private note, Gaia is NOT good for word formating. >_<)


VSO Form is also acceptable in German. This is know as inversion, and is part of forming a question. English has evolved to a stage were we almost have a word (do) which we use to denote a question.

Sprichts du Deutsch?

Speak you German?/Do you speak German?

Other Question Words.

Was - What
Wo - Where
Wer - Who
Wie - How
Woher - Where From

More later? That so took forever.

WellzY


Chikiya

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:04 am


You're right, I'm sorry I haven't been very good at the teaching, I have been so busy and it's difficult. Thanks WellzY that you've helped out so much!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:23 am


WellzY
Segeln - To Sail

ich - segl-e
du - segel-st
er/sie/es - segel-t
wir - segel-n
ihr - segel-t
sie - segel-n
Sie - segel-n

Verbs ending in -eln drop an -e in the ich form.


This is also true of verbs ending in -ern:

feuern - to fire

ich - feur-e
du - feuer-st
er/sie/es - feuer-t
wir - feuer-n
ihr - feuer-t
sie - feuer-n
Sie - feuer-n

füttern - to feed

ich - füttr-e
du - fütter-st
er/sie/es - fütter-t
wir - fütter-n
ihr - fütter-t
sie - fütter-n
Sie - fütter-n

[Keep in mind, though, that saying segele in place of segle and feuere in place of feure is still entirely acceptable and correct.]

WellzY
Other Question Words.

Was - What
Wo - Where
Wer - Who
Wie - How
Woher - Where From

More later? That so took forever.


And also, there are other inflected forms to some of those.

Uses for "where"

wo - where [Used in terms of current location: Wo bist du? Where are you?]
woher - (from) where [Used in terms of where something comes from: Woher kommt die Frau? Where does that woman come from?]
wohin - (to) where [Used in terms of where something is headed: Wohin fährst du nächsten Donnerstag? Where are you going next Thursday?]

Uses for "who"

wer - who [Used as the performer of the action: Wer hat diese Lamp gebrochen? Who has broken this lamp?]
wen - whom [Used as the object the action is performed on in the accusative case: Wen stanzte Jürgen? Whom did Jurgen punch?]
wem - (to/from) whom [Used as the object the action is performed on in the dative case: Wem soll ich dieses Buch geben? To whom should I give this book?]

More interrogatives

wieviel - how much/many [Wieviel kostet dieses Hemd? How much does this shirt cost?]

wenn/wann - when [Wann beginnt das Programm? When does the program begin?] (I use 'wann,' since 'wenn' is sometimes used in the context of 'if.')

warum - why [Warum bist du nicht gut gewesen? Why have you been unwell?]

wessen - whose [Wessen Schuhe liegen auf dem Boden? Whose shoes are lying on the floor?]

Hawk_McKrakken


WellzY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:02 pm


Modal Verbs.


Modal verbs are verbs which express modality. Essentially, it changes the meaning of the clause slightly. Again, this will be easy for fluent English speakers.

Können - Can

ich - kann
du - kannst
er/sie/es - kann
wir - können
ihr - könnt
sie - können
Sie - können

Wollen - To Want (forceful, can have strong connotations)

ich - will
du - willst
er/sie/es - will
wir - wollen
ihr - wollt
sie - wollen
Sie - wollen

Sollen - Should

ich - soll
du - sollst
er/sie/es - soll
wir - sollen
ihr - sollt
sie - sollen
Sie - sollen

Dürfen - May/To Be Able To

ich - darf
du - darfst
er/sie/es - darf
wir - dürfen
ihr - dürft
sie - dürfen
Sie - dürfen

Möchten - Would Like

ich - mag
du - magst
er/sie/es - mag
wir - möchten
ihr - möchtet
sie - möchten
Sie - möchten

Müssen - To Have To (Please note, müssen is not the same as English must. It has a less forceful meaning)

ich - muss
du - musst
er/sie/es - muss
wir - müssen
ihr - müsst
sie - müssen
Sie - müssen



Single verb clauses with the use of a modal verb are identical to English.

It can - Es kann
We may - Wir dürfen
You should - Du sollst

It clauses which contain the modal verb and an additional verb, the modal verb is conjugated for the subject, while the secondary verb goes to the end of the clauses in its infinitive form.

I would like to eat now - Ich mag jetzt essen
We may go later - Wir dürfen später gehen
She wants to see a movie - Sie willst einen Film sehen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:09 pm


WellzY
Müssen - To Have To (Please note, müssen is not the same as English must. It has a less forceful meaning)

ich - muss
du - musst
er/sie/es - muss
wir - müssen
ihr - müsst
sie - müssen
Sie - müssen


My copy of 501 German Verbs has these conjugations for müssen:

ich - muß
du - mußt
er/sie/es - muß
wir - müssen
ihr - müßt
sie/Sie - müssen

Was there some big spelling change i wasn't told about? confused

Slippy_Pollett


WellzY

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:41 pm


Slippy_Pollett
WellzY
Müssen - To Have To (Please note, müssen is not the same as English must. It has a less forceful meaning)

ich - muss
du - musst
er/sie/es - muss
wir - müssen
ihr - müsst
sie - müssen
Sie - müssen


My copy of 501 German Verbs has these conjugations for müssen:

ich - muß
du - mußt
er/sie/es - muß
wir - müssen
ihr - müßt
sie/Sie - müssen

Was there some big spelling change i wasn't told about? confused

I'm not sure, depends on how old your book is I guess. Our tutor told us something of the spelling reform currently going through Germany, and I'm not sure which is correct.

I think something like ß being used after dipthongs and something else, possibly at the end of words. But, yeah. LET'S WIKI IT!

Wiki
ß and ss: the letter "ß" is to appear only after long vowels and diphthongs.

* grüßen → grüßen (to greet)

A short vowel is to be followed by "ss" or "s".

* Ich möchte, daß du kommst. → …, dass du kommst (I want you to come)
* but das Haus → das Haus (the house)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:08 pm


Looking around online, it seems as though both are still widely in use? Curse languages that change this often! scream There should be rock solid spelling that never changes, that way people wouldn't be producing obsolete books (which i think mine is since these conjugations are probably technicaly wrong!)

Slippy_Pollett


Doppelgaanger

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:22 pm


Erm, if it wasn't already mentioned, I know some other gender rules...

(Quoth my sheet on German grammar, one of those "Quick Studey Academic" Things, this on German Grammar. Please don't say I'm plagiarising, I've given it credit, and am putting it in quotes)
"
Die:
*Words referring to female beings, their nationarlities and their professions:
-die Frau - the woman
-die Chemikerin - the chemist
-die Spanierin - the Spaish woman
*Agent nouns formed by affing the feminine suddix -in to masculine agent nouns:
-der Professor = die Professorin (the professor)
...
*Most nouns ending with the letter -e:
-die Kirshe - the cherry
-die Maschine - the machine
-die Kontrolle - the control
*Names of many German rivers:
-die Havel
-die Donau
-die Elbe
-die Spree
*Nouns ending with the suffices -ion, -heit, -keit, -schaft, -taet -ung, -ur, -ir, -ik, -enz, -ei and -anz.
[There are a lot of examples, but I think the above description is plenty]

Der:
*Words referring to male beings, their nationalities and their progessions:
-der Mann - the man
der Chemiker - the chemist
der Spanier - the Spanish man
*Agent nouns derived from verbs be adding suffix -er to the stem of the infinite form of verb:
-der Maler (malen) - the painter
der Fahrer (fahere)

-cont. later-
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Language of the Month

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