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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:05 pm
Magick in the Holy Bible:
In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he divineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.
The Urim and Thummim were two objects mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6 of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were apparently devices (perhaps in the form of flat stones) that the high priest consulted to determine the will of God. They might have worked something like a pair of dice.
Daniel, the prophet, was employed for many years in Babylon as the chief occultist to the king. He was supervisor "of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans and soothsayers". See Daniel 5:11.
More examples:
OLD TESTAMENT:
1. In Genesis 30:37-39 Jacob used wooden rods to magickally produce spotted sheep, just by (their parents) looking at the rods -- a typical form of Middle Eastern magick in those days.
2. See the Patriarch Joseph -- According to Gensis 44:2,5, the Patriarch Joseph had a special silver cup with which "he divineth". Divination was a well-used form of magick throughout the Middle East and indeed all over the world.
3. Moses -- In Numbers 21:9, Moses uses a brass serpent to heal those bitten by serpents -- a practice "well known outside the bible as well as within it, namely, making an image of a pest or affliction and presenting the image to the deity who in turn, would banish the pest."
4. In 2 Kings 13:21, a corpse was revived to mortal life when it came in contact with the bones of the prophet Elisha.
5. Casting Lots: Even commentators critical of the occult have had to acknowledge the magickal dimension of biblical "casting of lots" -- Not a vote by ballot, the casting of lots was outwardly identical to sortilege practiced throughout the ancient world by Pagans who sought to know the will of their various gods.
6. Jewish and Christian lore contains many references to occult incantations, amulets, charms, spells, exorcisms, etc.
NEW TESTAMENT:
7. Paul's Magick Handkerchiefs: Perhaps one of the best examples of New Testament use of magickal healing was the apostle Paul's sending special handkerchiefs among the people to heal (Acts 19:12).
8. "Christians used objects, rites, words, and formulas charged with divine potency to force demons to yield, all in accordance with well-known contemporary rules of magic...they may have claimed that this was not magic, but it certainly looked like magic to others."
9. Jesus the Magickian: (there is a book by that title) Jesus himself was said by many (both pro and anti-Christian, both during and following his mortal life) to be a trained magickian, and was supposed to have "passed magickal power to his apostles and to the church as a whole is thus found in Judaism, Gnosticism, Christian Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, Paganism, Islam and Mandeanism." (John M Hull, "Hellenistic Magic and the Synoptic Tradition" 4)
a. Jesus - In many of the miracles of Jesus, the techniques parallelled closely the magic practices of the ancient world -- using spittle to heal, changing water into wine, using foriegn language incantations, raising people from the dead, etc.
10. The "Gifts of the Spirit" -- What traditional Christianity terms the "Gifts of the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:7-20) and includes such things as prophesy, healing by laying on hands, speaking and interpreting tongues, working of miracles; discerning of spirits; etc. -- are known in other circles (pun intended!) as clairvoyance, clairsentience, precognition, etc.
Early Christians used "objects, rites, words and formulas charged with divine potency to force demons to yield, all in accordance with well-known contemporary rules of magick....they may have claimed this it was not magick, but it certainly looked like magick to others." (Ernest Cassirer, "An Essay on Man: An Introduction ot a Philosophy of Human Culture" 93)
By the end of antiquity (into the Middle ages) the Church had become the home of many forms of magick that "co-existed in an uneasy and tenuous symbiosis." Some magic was banned, some was tolerated, and some was approved.....
Examples of magick practiced in medieval Catholicism included the holy water, the talismanic use of the crucifix to ward off evil, sortilege (divination) by randomly opening the bible and randomly pointing to a verse on the page {bibliomancy}, the adoration of bones from the saints, appeals for healing to these bones and other sacred relics, elaborate ceremonies to exorcise evil spirits, candle magick, palmistry, and elements of the Mass itself . The medieval clergy participated in traditional forms of magic, including astrology, necromancy, ritual magic, and alchemy. . (Vetter, "Magic and Religion, 162; James Hastings, ed. "Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics," 13 vols. 8:247)
Occultic techniques in the Christian Scriptures:
St. Paul engaged in sorcery as described in Acts 13:6-12. (Sorcery is here used in the same way as Exodus 22:18: a person saying magical words or performing magical rituals in order to harm or kill another person). During his journey to Cyprus, St. Paul met Bar-Jesus, who was an attendant of the Roman proconsul Sergius Paulus. He had a conflict with cursed Bar-Jesus, saying:
"You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun. (NIV)
Bar-Jesus heard the curse and immediately was blinded.
St. Peter also engaged in sorcery, as described in Acts 5:9. After he determined that Sapphira had lied to him, he cursed her, saying "How is it that ye have agreed together to try the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them that have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. (ASV)
She collapsed and died immediately.
Jewish Kabbalah:
The word Kabbalah literally means "that which is received." It's used in the Talmud to mean tradition in general, though more often these days it means books of mystical study that include thoughts on the nature of God. According to legend, a scholar of Kabbalah could banish demons or control genies, or alter destiny around him, creating Amulets called Kame'ot (the singular being a Kame'a) or, in the extreme, Robots.
The most famous legend of Jewish Kabbalah is that of the Golem, a man made out of clay animated by the word Truth on his forehead and the one of the Less-Known names of God written on a scroll in his mouth. Though the man had the basic property of Life, Nefesh, meaning Breath, it did not have the higher level of Neshamah, a Soul, which all Humans have. Therefore, it lacked initiative and seemed incredibly boneheaded in some respects and almost clairvoyant in others. Eventually, after saving the community from which it's creators had come, it went mad and had the Truth on it's forehead changed to Dead (one letter erased) and the scroll in it’s mouth removed... and it died, and returned to the clay from which it had been made...
"Thou knowest me right well; my frame was not hidden from thee when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. Thy eyes beheld my 'unformed substance' (Hebrew: Golem); in thy book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me" - Psalms 139:15-16
Rava said: "If the righteous wished, they could create a world, for it is written: 'Your inequities are a barrier between you and your God.'" For Rava created a man and sent him to Rabbi Zeira. The Rabbi spoke to him [the man] but he did not answer. Then he [Zeira] said: "You are from the pietists. Return to your dust." - Babylonian Talmud, in Sanhedrin 65b (Translation: Moshe Idel.)
Biblical Condemnation of the Occult:
There are many Biblical passages that described some prohibited types of occultic activity by the ancient Israelites. These include Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 19:26-26; 19:31; 20:6; Deuteronomy 18:10-11; Isaiah 8:19 and Malachai 3:5. Of these, Deuteronomy 18 is perhaps the most important. They forbade the Israelites from engaging in human sacrifice and in eight specific practices which some have been regarded as occultic. The King James translation is:
"There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Various other translations of the Bible use the following terms or phrases here: augur, black magic, calls up the dead, charm, consults with spirits, fortune teller, interpret omens, look for omens, magician, medium, sorcerer, soothsayer, spiritist, weaves or casts spells, witchcraft, and wizard.
Clearly, translators have had a great deal of difficulty selecting unique English words or short phrases to match the 8 original Hebrew words:
yid'oni Making contact with spirits (not of God). sho'el 'ov Making contact with the dead . qosem q'samim Foretelling the future by using lots or a similar system. m'onen Predicting the future by interpreting signs in nature. m'nachesh Enchanting (perhaps related to nachash, a snake). chover chavar Casting spells by magical knot tying. m'khaseph evil sorcery; using spoken spells to harm other people. doresh 'el hametim "One who asks the dead", probably via another method than sho'el 'ov
The reference to passing children through the fire has historically been interpreted as the ritual killing of the first born child in each family. Tribes surrounding the Israelites were believed to engage in this practice. In reality, it probably refers to a painful coming-of-age challenge that children had to endure. They would pass through the fire and (hopefully) emerge without much injury. In other traditions, they would run between two fires. This phrase has caused many people to believe that Pagans in ancient times engaged in child sacrifice. This appears to be the source of the belief among some Christians that modern day Pagans do the same thing. While we do not know what ancient Pagans did, we can be certain that modern-day Pagans do not murder children. This phrase (and many similar ones throughout the Bible) has probably contributed greatly to the public's widely held fear of Ritual Abuse and Satanic Ritual Abuse.
Interpreting Deuteronomy 18 in terms of modern-day practice, it is apparent that the following are prohibited:
yid'oni The New Age practice of channeling in which a person attempts to contact a spirit in order to gain knowledge. sho'el 'ov Spiritualism, in which a medium contacts the dead. qosem q'samim Casting stones or sticks and predicting the future by their position (e.g. I Ching, and perhaps runes, or Tarot cards). m'onen Foretelling the future by looking for signs in nature (e.g. predicting the harshness of a winter by looking at moss on trees, or fur thickness on animals in the wild, or whether the groundhog sees his shadow on FEB-2.) m'nachesh Snake charming. chover chavar Casting (presumably evil) spells while tying knots. m'khaseph Reciting evil spoken spells to injure others . doresh 'el hametim Any other method of contacting the dead .
Other currently used methods of foretelling the future, such as tea cup reading, astrology, palm reading, tarot cards, runes etc. are not mentioned. It is thus not obvious whether they are forbidden (as in snake charming) or whether they are acceptable to God (as in scrying). A Membership in the Masonic Order (or similar fraternal/spiritual organization) is not banned. Wicca (Witchcraft), which does not allow its followers to engage in black magic or manipulative spells, is not prohibited either. Black magic rituals, are occasionally performed by Satanists as revenge to injury done to them by others; they would be condemned by this passage.
The Biblical passages appear to apply to persons who are directly engaged in the various practices (e.g. mediums, channelers, astrologers, etc.); they do not seem to refer to people who simply observe the activity.
The Greek word "pharmakos" which appears in Galatians 5:20 refers to poisoners. It was mis-translated as witchcraft in the King James Version. Since no modern-day Pagan, Neopagan or occultic activity engages in killing people by poison, the verse does not refer in any way to Wicca, other Neopagans or Occultists.
The above information was posted from: www.religioustolerance.org and Various Sources.
As for the verses condemning various forms of Magick, some of which were ironically still used and practiced by some Biblical Prophets and Biblical Figures in the same context in which they were condemned in the old Jewish Law, yet God didn't forbid or rebuke them from doing it.
It would appear to be that in Truth those practices were condemned when used and practiced outside of God's Realm. Meaning, God had to be the *source* of the "Magick", or else it would fall under the clause of the Law.
Joseph openly practiced Divination and was not condemned by God:
In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he divineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.
Notice: "That such a man as I can certainly divine". Meaning he was such a man bestowed upon by the Power of God, being embued by God with the Power to Divine (Divination). Meaning the Elect can practice "Magick" as drawn from the Power of God but not from outside of the Power of God. God is the "Magick". Practicing such "Magick" outside of God as the Source seems to be what is truely forbidden. It would appear that the Elect *can* practice "Magick", even those condemned by the Law, if God is the Source of "Magick" from which they draw, and not from outside forces. This is apparent from the various "uses" of Pagan Magick by Biblical Prophets and Biblical Figures (Including Jesus Christ) who practiced such but were not condemned from practicing such by God, because they drew from God in their Practice of it. Jesus Christ and the Apostles saw and spoke with the Deceased Moses and Elijah on the mountain, Jesus Christ and the Apostles raised the dead, as did the bones of the Prophet Elijah in the Old Testament. This would seem to fall under condemnation of the Law, but it was from the Power of God and not apart from the Power of God, so it was flagged as acceptable before God.
NOTE: As a Valentinian Gnostic Christian the Old Testament Laws don't really bother me anyway, as the Demiurge's/Craftsman's Jewish Law was fulfilled/done away with in Jesus Christ.
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:41 pm
Wow. Never thought of the Bible like that, not that I think about it much anyways. But this is pretty interesting. I'll have to point this out to my ultra conservative Catholic mother. Then build a bomb shelter and run from the baptismal fonts to "save" me from the fires of hell. xd
They also have people worshipping a golden calf in the old testament, and there's the book of Revalations (At least in a Catholic Bible) where the prophets prophasize about the future and attempt to reveal it, divination in the Catholic bible..divination is something Catholics are strongly against...Hmm...I pointed this out to my mother, but she went on a rant about how it wasn't "divination" but messages god gave people and so on and so forth. I pointed out that pagans got messages from their gods so what made the bible so different from that. Needless to say..it was a long night of argueing and by the time the night was done, nothing had been accomplished.
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:37 pm
xdarktigress Wow. Never thought of the Bible like that, not that I think about it much anyways. But this is pretty interesting. I'll have to point this out to my ultra conservative Catholic mother. Then build a bomb shelter and run from the baptismal fonts to "save" me from the fires of hell. xd They also have people worshipping a golden calf in the old testament, and there's the book of Revalations (At least in a Catholic Bible) where the prophets prophasize about the future and attempt to reveal it, divination in the Catholic bible..divination is something Catholics are strongly against...Hmm...I pointed this out to my mother, but she went on a rant about how it wasn't "divination" but messages god gave people and so on and so forth. I pointed out that pagans got messages from their gods so what made the bible so different from that. Needless to say..it was a long night of argueing and by the time the night was done, nothing had been accomplished. I'd suggest making the bomb shelter first.
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:00 pm
Naeryn I'd suggest making the bomb shelter first. Hee hee...That'd prolly be a good idea. Except I seem to have inheritted my mother's stubborness so neither of us will back down from an arguement when we know we're right. You can imagine the chaos in the house hold over fights like that. Nothing ever gets accomplished. I end up just saying stuff just to piss her off and get a rise out of her and she gets so frustrated that she can't answer all my questions so she keeps bringing up the "The bible says so" phrase. whee My brother and dad who are both afraid of confronting my mom just run and hide once we start going at it. xp sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:54 pm
Well I think the reason that I'm tolerant is if you look at the definition of magick then wou;dn't all of God's work be considered magick . I hop I am not being Blasphemous but if you think about The miracle and such are works of magick that go under guise as gifts from god and miracles.
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:49 pm
xdarktigress Naeryn I'd suggest making the bomb shelter first. Hee hee...That'd prolly be a good idea. Except I seem to have inheritted my mother's stubborness so neither of us will back down from an arguement when we know we're right. You can imagine the chaos in the house hold over fights like that. Nothing ever gets accomplished. I end up just saying stuff just to piss her off and get a rise out of her and she gets so frustrated that she can't answer all my questions so she keeps bringing up the "The bible says so" phrase. whee My brother and dad who are both afraid of confronting my mom just run and hide once we start going at it. xp sweatdrop Thats when you say "But didn't Jesus/some saint/whoever say...." And see what happens. 3nodding "Judge not less ye be judged" is good, along with "Let he among us who is without sin cast the first stone." Multi-purpose quotes. whee Prongs Jr:I suppose you could look at it that way, as Gods miracles being a kind of magic. Mostly, its considered differently, as you say, but thats a veiw I hadn't thought of before....Hm.... Just to point out to the author: Nice first post. Lots of info. 3nodding
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A Murder of Angels Captain
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:20 am
Excellent post, Eteponge! Very fascinating and informative.
I'd like to bring up two more points. They start out in the bible, but leave the bible behind and take on lives of their own...
First, Moses was a well-known magician (depending on your definition of the word). This is evedent in the book of Exodus in several places. For example, before the plagues of Egypt, Moses threw his staff to the ground in the hall of the Pharow of Egypt and it became a snake. (The Egyptian priests who were present did the same, but that's beside my point.) Later on, as was already mentioned, he heals people through what seems like supernatural means.
Moses was said to have written the first books of the bible... the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. In magical folklore, he is said to have written two more books as well. Lacking true titles, these books are most commonly referred to as the Sizth and Seventh books of Moses.
The Sixth book contains a set of each seals, and each chapter contains a prayer and describes the use of the seal. Some of the uses seem to be directly out of medieval spellcraft. For example: "The particularly great secret and special use of this seal is that if this seal is buried in the earth, where treasures exist, they will come to the surface of themselves, without any presence during a full moon." It goes on like this for seven chapters.
The Seventh book begins much the same way as the Sixth, giving conjurations and directions of use for twelve "tables of the spirits." After this, it goes on to give excerpts of information from the kabbala, and sets down "Jewish magical law".
It's highly doubtful that Moses himself wrote either book. In fact, the latter of the two was first translated by Johann Scheibel [1736-1809] and many say written by him as well. In any case, these two books match and set the mood for my next topic, Solomonic magic, which is said to be a form of Holy magic that has been in practise in secret from ancient times all the way to today.
Solomon, the king and hero of the old testament, wrote several books of the bible (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon) as well as several apocryphal books (Wisdom of Solomon (re-introduced to the bible by the Catholics), Odes of Solomon, Psalms of Solomon). After all these, there have always been rumors that the king left books of magic, hidden to be uncovered at a later date.
The most well-known of these supposed materials are the Greater and Lesser Keys of Solomon the King. The Greater Key explains much behind the practises involved and describes magical procedures. The Lesser Key (the more infamous of the two) includes a work known as "Goetia". This Key explains how to summon and control demons and gives many of their personal sigils.
Following the styles and examples set down by these two works, during the middle ages, many more bokks of "solomonic magic" were written by students of the art. These include Grimorium Verum, True Black Magic, The Grand Grimpire, The Grimoire of Honorius, The Sworn Book, Liber iuratus, Semiphoras, Shemhamphoras Solomonis Regis, and Liber Salomonis.
Note that three of the books, The Grimoire of Honorius, The Sworn Book and Liber iuratus, were said to have been written by Pope Honorius himself.
While it is well known that all of the latter books were written by different authors, it should be mentioned that again, it is highly doubtful that Solomon himself even wrote the Greater and Lesser Keys. However, as may have been the case with Pope Honorius, the few who came in contect with these secret books believed that these books very well were written by Solomon, and therfore were acceptable in the eyes of God, even when dealing with demons.
And on a final note, Solomon has always been a very important figure to the Freemasons. I personally do not know much about Masonic rituals, but perhaps Masonic rituals have much ado with Solomonic magic.
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:16 am
Cool, I am not gonna tell this to my grandmother. Then she will just give me a large talk about how bad pagana will be. But the mother of my best friend will like it. She is always busy to connect pagan with christ.
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:41 pm
Don't forget Pagan holidays... including (but not limited to):
Jul/Yule: Christmas. Adopted to lure Anglo-Saxons to join Christianity Ester/Esther: Easter. Ester was a Celtic goddes, specializing in love and...er... fertility. And the spring. She decided there should be a fuzzy critter which could lay eggs, so she turned a bird into a rabbit. This amazing creature was known as the Ester Bunny (go figure)... She ran around laying eggs (which were sometimes said to be quite colorful) under bushes and in other slightly strange places, where eggs are not generally found. Finding such an egg was said to be very lucky. This tradition was adopted for the same reason as Jul. May Day (I don't remember the original name offhand): I know it's not strictly Christian, but it was celebrated by most Christians and not many other people for a long time. This was another great Celtic celebration, focused entirely on fertility. Um... masculine fertility. The maypole is the most well-known and notable tradition here. Maidens with ribbons dance around a long wooden pole, wrapping it in color. Suffice it to say that the pole was a phalic symbol.
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:24 am
I'm not going to read all of that today either, but I do think you need to read this book:
The Jesus Mysteries, by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
I might go back and read this thread some other time.
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