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Lord Setar

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:37 pm


Rather, my girlfriend does. I have the adoption stuff and rape exception posts saved, but she needs some snippets on development of the fetus, a few definitions, the BD argument and the risks of abortion. The kids in her health class are propaganda-fed idiots and I want to give her some ammo.

Much thanks to anyone who helps ^^;
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:17 pm


Have you checked the library?

Akhakhu


Talon-chan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:38 pm


BD argument:

1. Each person has a right to be the sole owner and decider as to what happens in and to their bodies.

This right has been upheld in many legal cases that solidify a patient's rights to make medical decisions without governmental interference and the right of one person to refuse invasive procedures for the sake of family members when that family member's life was in danger. (Citations of many on first page of abortion thread in McFall post).

This right to decide who uses your body and when definately exists and can not be rationally denied. A pro-lifer may say it is wrong and should be removed, but it currently does exist.

2. An individual has the right to use lethal force when another person invades their body and either threatens, or actually causes greivous bodily harm. In 40/50 states it is law that a woman may kill a man who rapes her, and in the other 10 there is no statute that bans it. It is very likely that in a state where it is not expressly permitted if taken to court a woman would not be penalized for defending herself. In some states, such as florida, if a man merely enters your home without permission you are entitled to kill him.

The question is whether or not a fetus causes "grievous" harm like a rapist, or one who tortures. When comparing the physical changes, hormonal changes, and emotional trauma that can occur during unwanted pregnancy (as well as the threat of complications) and comparing that with the threat, and longevity of actual harms during rape or torture it seems obvious that what a fetus does is, if not worse, on the same order of magnatude.

Conclusion: Whether or not a fetus is a person is debatable, but even if it were a person that status does not grant it some special right to use a woman's body. Her BD rights, and her self-defense rights, permit her to kill it for the same reasons she can kill her rapist.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:43 pm


Visual representation of a developing fetus can be found at Visembryo.

BD, basically she can say that one isn't required to give up her body for another and use lethal force to stop anyone who violated that right. My page for common "arguments" against it can be found here.

Risks of abortion, I don't have those on me at the moment, but I'm sure they're in easy reach through Google. (I'm being equally lazy.) Be sure to mention the risks of pregnancy and that they are much longer and much more dangerous.

Half Baked SF


Jendaya

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:13 pm


Personally, I don't like to take the fetus route, if I can avoid it I do. I lean more toward what Roe v Wade did for women and men - yes - men. Before Roe v Wade mental institutions would sterilize patients so they could not reproduce (this happened until the early 70s) or the states would have the mentally handicapped sterilized or criminals would be sterilized while serving their prison terms. In 1974 North Carolina stopped sterilizing welfare recipiants and in 2003 the governor issued a public apology. All are forms of eugenics, which is what Hitler did.

These are all examples of men and women who could not choose. The women did not even get the choice to be pregnant or have an abortion. Pro-life needs to see the flipside of the coin - it is not about abortion it is about our right, our freedom to choose. When you take away our right to choose, you also take away our right to reproduce, too.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:45 pm


Not mine, but quite useful. heart

TheFiresOfStupid Wrote:
The Ethical Basis for Bodily Domain and the Rights to Bodily Integrity:

Bodily Domain is the medically defined area of your body, a territory of sorts, owned and controlled specifically by you and ONLY by you.

It is your skin and the all the area within your skin, it includes your organs, your bones and your blood and the spaces in between.

You are the sole determiner of what happens to those organs, that blood, and even the space within the area of your Bodily Domain.

That is your right to Bodily Integrity, which is also referred to as Bodily Domain.

There are three basic categories that describe essentially every interaction that can be done between your Body and other things.

Intrusion, Occupation and Removal.

They are given negative names mainly because they are the self defensible rights within the Bodily Domain, Bodily Integrity, and Bodily Autonomy trio.

Self defensible means they are only negative if you yourself consider them negative, because if you consent to something, there is nothing to defend against.



Intrusion:

Intrusion is any entry into your Bodily Domain that is negatively viewed from your perspective.

This makes it a violation of your Bodily Domain rights, normally referred to as Bodily Integrity.

It covers everything from rape, to delivery of injury (bullets, knives) injection of poisons, diseases, even non harmful or beneficial substances can be seen as a violation if consent is not given.


Removal

Removal refers to the taking of anything from your body. It can cover your own organs and blood, or even artificial or foreign material in your body, like prosthetics or substances that you wish to keep within you.

It is also a violation of your Bodily Domain rights.

It covers everything from organ theft, to blood stealing, to nutrient leeching.


Occupation

Occupation refers to any continuous presence of material or presence of living things within your Bodily Domain that is unconsented to. And therefore a violation.

It covers everything from parasites, unwanted implants and pregnancies.


These are all things that no human being should be subjected to unless they themselves are causing a violation of the same set of ethical principles.

So Bodily Domain should only be violated if doing so will protect your own or the BD of others from being violated and/or end a current violation in progress.

If you are violating someone's BD, your own becomes forfeit if they decide to defend themselves from your actions, and their defense violates your BD.


In conclusion:

An unwanted fetus is violating a woman's BD.

There is no way around this.

The fetus has no call to do so as the woman has done nothing to violate the BD of the fetus.

Hence a fetus has no right to violate the woman's BD.

But the woman does have a right to do so to the fetus in response to its violation of her, especially since that is currently the only way to end its Occupation of her BD and Removal of her resources.

To not allow a woman to defend her BD rights violates a set of ethical principles that protect us from having our organs taken for others' use, to avoid being raped, to avoid being enslaved, to avoid having our bodies used as tools for the benefit of others.

To do so would strip the usefulness of society to the individual in terms of promoting survival and comfort.

It would make remaining within society less beneficial then leaving it, and to lose these ethical principles would degrade our society in many deterimental ways.

Therefore attempts to remove the right to abort from a woman is not only misogynistic, anti-woman's rights, and ethically unsupportable from a viewpoint that values human rights to their own body, it is also a self destructive view that endangers all of us.

Reinna Astarel


PhaedraMcSpiffy

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:43 pm


Planned Parenthood has some great articles, but I'm not sure how these brainwashed kids would react to information from such a blatantly pro-choice source.
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Pro-Choice Gaians

 
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