Planned Parenthood Celebration Jolted by Abortion Survivor | Page 3 | The Pro-life Guild | Guild Forums

divineseraph

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:35 am

well, how else could she be "forced to go through with unwanted pregnancies" other than being tied up and shackled and treatred as a baby machine?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:48 am

SO because she's being denied an abortion she's being forced to stay pregnant? You mean the choicers havn't already made it clear that there are "other" ways to terminate a pregnancy?

Tiger of the Fire

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rweghrheh

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:41 pm

Ava R.

An amazing story. I wish I'd been there to see that.

I absolutely adore this quote:

Quote:

"We need to discuss the humanity of it. I'm glad to be able to speak up for children in the womb," she said. "If abortion is about women's rights, where were my rights?"

It was an amazing story, it's also amazing what that lady can do after going through all that.

And yes I like that quote as well.

I think that's a bunch of crap they say so they can try to adjustify abortion, they don't care about others rights but their own. Since when is killing and killing your own child no less should be/is a right?

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:02 pm

Pyrotechnic Oracle

King_Seth

divineseraph

i'm pretty surprised. that'd be like a jew willingly heiling hitler while sucking down a 5-gallon bucket of pork.

Sadly enough that has happened, there was a movie based on him, the believer I think it was called.

Yup.

I'm sorry Chat, but I see no comparason in that exapmle. You have one human being forced to give up a few months of their time compared to another who is being forced to give up their mortasl life. I honostly fail to see the comparason.

Maybe you didn't hear the part about the multiple pregnacies, Pyrotechnic. I consider pregnacy, childbirth, and motherhood to be a sacred thing. A mother's gift to give life to others is a blessing, here I saw a woman being treated like a baby mill. No love, no joy, no nothing in it. Just like a factory. Is a woman's gift to the world not sacred? (I'd just like to note that (English Spelling unknown) (???)Sa(lr)oongka(???) is the branch, originating in Thailand, of Buddhism I'm part of. I want to refer to a minor principle, Dek(lr)unanaka(??) ) A mother's ability to create new life and cherish it like a mother does is sacred, and to raise it as to achieve the spiritual enlightment etc. is too. Now, this sounds pro-life until you get to the part that uses the metaphor of a woman's body like a temple and a whole lot more other stuff (Note: This is NOT a church-like temple) like something that it longs to expel must be removed from it.

Oh geez, this post is really too long! sweatdrop Sorry I'm not too clear, but I'm not sure how to explain it in a way that makes it.... Err.... Less gonk -like.

The Velveteen Violinist

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lymelady
Vice Captain

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:28 pm

But comparing a woman who made a choice to have sex which resulted in pregnancy to a woman who made no choice whatsoever but got cerebral palsy due to someone else's choice doesn't make much sense.

It'd be one thing if this women didn't have consentual sex and was chained down to a table unable to get herself an abortion, and she was then disabled.

If this was the case, then both women would have been complete victims of the choices of another individual. Both would be without responsibility in the matter.

But consentual sex is a much different thing. No, it is not consenting to pregnancy at all. It is consenting to the possibility that you will become pregnant. It is saying, "I know that I might cause another human to come into being and be dependant on my body." It's not like an embryo just flies around, looking for random women to invade.

Ms. Jessen, on the other hand, had absolutely NO choice that could have resulted in her being aborted. It was not a consequence of ANY choice she made. SHe was literally forced into a situation where she became dependant on her mother's body and was then forcibly removed, but not just removed. A saline injection isn't a C-section where you say, "Let's take it out and if it dies, well, the mother's bodily integrity was intact!" No. It is, "Let's kill it before taking it out, it'll probably die anyway." This procedure didn't manage to kill her, but it did disable her in a way where her life can never be like those of most people. Abortion directly disabled her. She had NO choice to make that would bring about that consequence.

This woman you speak of, however, did. Unless she was raped or an idiot, she knew when she had sex that pregnancy was possible. If no one forced her to have sex, then no, I'm sorry, the situation isn't compareable. She made an active choice that resulted in her becoming pregnant. Ms. Jessen did not. One women was denied any choice to even take a risk that would result in her condition. One had that choice to take a risk that led to her condition(which I find is hardly compareable to cerebral palsy. If she was disabled, maybe the hurdles she overcame would be compareable to Ms. Jessen's, but the situation would still be unable to compare).

How are they long lost sisters? Because if struggling through multiple unwanted pregnancies is as hard as dealing with cerebral palsy, then I'm a candidate to go on tour speaking about how much I've overcome (which is very, very little). I can imagine it now, the summary of my autobiography. "How I didn't kill myself when I was forced to deal with the repurcussions of my own decisions." Wow, that's oh so brave of me.

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:00 am

..Le Chat du Noir..

Pyrotechnic Oracle

King_Seth

divineseraph

i'm pretty surprised. that'd be like a jew willingly heiling hitler while sucking down a 5-gallon bucket of pork.

Sadly enough that has happened, there was a movie based on him, the believer I think it was called.

Yup.

I'm sorry Chat, but I see no comparason in that exapmle. You have one human being forced to give up a few months of their time compared to another who is being forced to give up their mortasl life. I honostly fail to see the comparason.

Maybe you didn't hear the part about the multiple pregnacies, Pyrotechnic. I consider pregnacy, childbirth, and motherhood to be a sacred thing. A mother's gift to give life to others is a blessing, here I saw a woman being treated like a baby mill. No love, no joy, no nothing in it. Just like a factory. Is a woman's gift to the world not sacred? (I'd just like to note that (English Spelling unknown) (???)Sa(lr)oongka(???) is the branch, originating in Thailand, of Buddhism I'm part of. I want to refer to a minor principle, Dek(lr)unanaka(??) ) A mother's ability to create new life and cherish it like a mother does is sacred, and to raise it as to achieve the spiritual enlightment etc. is too. Now, this sounds pro-life until you get to the part that uses the metaphor of a woman's body like a temple and a whole lot more other stuff (Note: This is NOT a church-like temple) like something that it longs to expel must be removed from it.

Oh geez, this post is really too long! sweatdrop Sorry I'm not too clear, but I'm not sure how to explain it in a way that makes it.... Err.... Less gonk -like.

I'm sorry, but your comparasin would only come close to working if this pregnant woman had been rapped. If thats not the case then it goes as pretty much what Lyme said. The two don't compare. Some one made a choice to have consensual sex and it resulte din the creation of a life and she was forced to take responsobility for that life. Another person had no choice what so ever.

The woman you described had consensual sex. In doing so she unspokenly consented to the possibility of becoming pregnant or aquiring some sort of diseas if that be the case. Ms. Jessen on the other hand was handed absolutly no choice what so ever in her situation. Her mother chose to abort, the abortion was botched, and a young girl was born with several life altering dissabilties.

We both have our own beleifes. Yours is that a womans body is sacred to the point where she has every right to remove something and terminate it's life, even if this somethign is human and not her body. Mine is that, even in rape, she has no right to destroy this life. However, the problem we both have to deal with is logic. It is not logical for some one to make a descision they know will have possible repricussion and then not take responsibility for them when and if they happen. Its also not responsible to force some one to take responsinbility for something they didnt do or help in. (IE pregnancy from rape. The problem with that is that it is also not logical to kill something that is not at any fault.)

Heres what you are comparing. One woman made a logical to have sex. She was not raped (at least form how it saond like what your saying). She made the choice, knowing that it could result in her pecoming pregnant (unless she was some kind of idiot). This woman made a choice, became pregnant ,and was then forced to take responsibility for her choice. Another woman was born with walking dissabilities and possibly couldnever walk at all. She did walk, but had balance problems and such form CP. She had no choice in this situation. She ha dno choice in her creation. She ha dno choice in her abortion. Thus her condition was force odn her by some one else he didn't want to take responsibility for thier choices.

Tell me now. How is being forced to take responcibility for your desicions the same as having being forced into a life altering condition?

Tiger of the Fire

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divineseraph

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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:36 am

lymelady

But comparing a woman who made a choice to have sex which resulted in pregnancy to a woman who made no choice whatsoever but got cerebral palsy due to someone else's choice doesn't make much sense.

It'd be one thing if this women didn't have consentual sex and was chained down to a table unable to get herself an abortion, and she was then disabled.

If this was the case, then both women would have been complete victims of the choices of another individual. Both would be without responsibility in the matter.

But consentual sex is a much different thing. No, it is not consenting to pregnancy at all. It is consenting to the possibility that you will become pregnant. It is saying, "I know that I might cause another human to come into being and be dependant on my body." It's not like an embryo just flies around, looking for random women to invade.

Ms. Jessen, on the other hand, had absolutely NO choice that could have resulted in her being aborted. It was not a consequence of ANY choice she made. SHe was literally forced into a situation where she became dependant on her mother's body and was then forcibly removed, but not just removed. A saline injection isn't a C-section where you say, "Let's take it out and if it dies, well, the mother's bodily integrity was intact!" No. It is, "Let's kill it before taking it out, it'll probably die anyway." This procedure didn't manage to kill her, but it did disable her in a way where her life can never be like those of most people. Abortion directly disabled her. She had NO choice to make that would bring about that consequence.

This woman you speak of, however, did. Unless she was raped or an idiot, she knew when she had sex that pregnancy was possible. If no one forced her to have sex, then no, I'm sorry, the situation isn't compareable. She made an active choice that resulted in her becoming pregnant. Ms. Jessen did not. One women was denied any choice to even take a risk that would result in her condition. One had that choice to take a risk that led to her condition(which I find is hardly compareable to cerebral palsy. If she was disabled, maybe the hurdles she overcame would be compareable to Ms. Jessen's, but the situation would still be unable to compare).

How are they long lost sisters? Because if struggling through multiple unwanted pregnancies is as hard as dealing with cerebral palsy, then I'm a candidate to go on tour speaking about how much I've overcome (which is very, very little). I can imagine it now, the summary of my autobiography. "How I didn't kill myself when I was forced to deal with the repurcussions of my own decisions." Wow, that's oh so brave of me.

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