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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

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Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:56 pm


Quote:
As for Graccvhs, it is a common remark in the sphere of economics that one wants to maintain a "trade balance" or if anything export more than one imports- the US hasn't done this since 1967 (and for a short time a few years later).


what care have i for the bourgeois economy? none, care about trade only matters when it is in a proletarian state surrounded by imperialism, thus yes, china should trade, but in the interests of its proletariat, though bureaucratic mismanagement is not going to allow that. so if there were a proletarian political revolition in china, it would not completly collectivise everything, that would be autarky- that is: socialism in one country. but it would collectivise all that needs to be collectivised, and everything else would be organised in the interests of the working class.

that is what lenin attemted to do with the NEP.

Quote:
Also, rather than saying "our" to mean american would you prefer for me to say "The American" as obviously my use of language denotes my "social chauvenism".


of course i would, but only if you mean it that way. if you do see it as 'our' or 'your's'(collective sence) then i would prefer you say it that way.
as scientific socialists, we must use as scientific and defenite use of language as possible.

Quote:
but we would have to force business out through taxes and buy them out physically because the bourgeois will never surrender these things- and any war for them would be more akin to genocide (as any stock holder would become infinitely powerful if all the other stock holders were killed off).


so then you oppose the proletarian answer to this problem, that is, groups of armed workers, red guards, if you will, occupying the biggest factories and farms, and having central planning to organise it?

what you suggest is more what is nessessary in the rural areas of peasant dominated states: reference the peasant question in france and germany about this.

anyway, what is wrong with killing a few capitalists if the need is there? as i always say, i would prefer to not have to, but i doubt that possibility.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:32 am


Of course gracchvs, but the fact of the matter is that modern economics teaches us very easily how to make a nation richer- and one of those ways is to maintain a trade balance of export over import, but this would be easier and more "morally" correct, as we would essentially try to establish our basic industries in the nation to such a point as to be self sufficient in that respect, of course it would change from nation to nation. It's just that, at least to me, bourgeois economics cannot be ignored, it's like a train wreck to me, I don't agree with its aims, but I can't look away- because that knowledge will show us how to build a proletarian society with as little pain as possible- and more quickly.



Well, we can't off people to take their property, because that would cause a wide-spread scare and insurrection. If we were to ever come to power in the US, our power would be so fragile we could never attempt anything as blatently offensive as that, lest segments of the proletariat fall off.

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Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:55 pm


um, if there was a successful revolution in the US, there would be no worry. counciousness would have developed to the point that the proletariat would support such measures.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:48 pm


I know class consciousness would certainly fortify our position, but can proletarian dictatorship be truly gaurenteed- especially if it involves state sponsored cullings of business owners.

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Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:17 pm


look at october.

that is all i can say.

and no, not state sponsored, but state doing it. one must realise that it will only be the biggest businesses, that is, objectively, not based on what is big for our tech. so places where 20 or more people should be taken by the state, with or with out compo as the situation requires.

but only the big places of production/distribution and those that actively oppose us. in any way.
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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

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