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Rhetorical Epithet

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:47 pm


I'm looking for a teacher that will be able to teach me abuot the inner court of Wicca and the mystery aspect of Wicca being a mystery religion. There are no Coven near by and none that i can contact....so i guess all i'm asking if for a possible priestess/priest to teacher me online? (*lol..sound terrible, i know*)

anyone interested?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:01 am


Not sure you're likely to find someone like that around here. Most covens won't do initiations until a person is eighteen years of age, and a great percentage of Gaians are NOT of that age.

However, offering my 2-cents on the issue, why do you feel that you must be initated into a coven to learn the mysteries? I ask because there are varying opinions on this. Some believe initiation is a *must* and others believe that mysteries can be experienced by *anyone*.

Starlock


Rhetorical Epithet

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:14 pm


Starlock
Not sure you're likely to find someone like that around here. Most covens won't do initiations until a person is eighteen years of age, and a great percentage of Gaians are NOT of that age.

However, offering my 2-cents on the issue, why do you feel that you must be initated into a coven to learn the mysteries? I ask because there are varying opinions on this. Some believe initiation is a *must* and others believe that mysteries can be experienced by *anyone*.
I believe that too..i think that initiation by a high priestess and initation done by yourself is all but none too different. After all...the Initiation is done by the Goddess Herself...after she is called down into the High Priestess. Meaning that the mysteries are only that established by the Gardnerian Coven.

I find that Coven initiation is really a fundamentalist path to the same God...i mean....all Covens agree on the Summerland and reincarnation as do many Solitaries. Many comare the Fundamentalism of Gardnerian Wicca to that of Contemperary Self initiatory Wiccans to that of Catholicism vs Methodism, Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints to everyday Mormons and even the Hassidim to Zionists. But i would like to know what exactly is being hidden and what make many call my Path lesser Wicca.

In agreement and for discussion sake, would you say that, perhaps, the mysteries and the Inner Court of Wicca have long been publicised? Considering that in many of the Gardnerian Covens did not allow the casting of circles, entry into the circle, introduction to the elements, introduction to the tools of witchcraft, the working of spellcraft, and even the very name of the Coven. Many say that the true names of the Wiccan Gods are given are initiation....which in turn contradicts itself in how Doreen Valiente presents them in her Charge of the God/dess. Is this all still, outer court workings?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:54 pm


Well Maybe you could do an online search?? try doing it from places in your area... or try online coverns..?? I don't know any sites, but I am sure you will find somehting that suits you

But I am solitary, and my only form of contact is sometimes on the net, and mainly on this site... oh and my boyfriend. sometimes.. LOL...

Lilah-Clover


Starlock

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:03 am


RyukotsuseiTsukiyomi

In agreement and for discussion sake, would you say that, perhaps, the mysteries and the Inner Court of Wicca have long been publicised? Considering that in many of the Gardnerian Covens did not allow the casting of circles, entry into the circle, introduction to the elements, introduction to the tools of witchcraft, the working of spellcraft, and even the very name of the Coven. Many say that the true names of the Wiccan Gods are given are initiation....which in turn contradicts itself in how Doreen Valiente presents them in her Charge of the God/dess. Is this all still, outer court workings?


I've not been initiated into a Traditional Wiccan coven, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but I CAN speak from a knowledge of basic theological principles. First off, I will say that mysteries and mystical experiences CANNOT be taught. They can ONLY be experienced, so you will not find them in any book. This is because of the characteristics of mystical experience themselves, which I'll outline in a bit.

William James, a well-known philosopher of religion, argues that all religions have at their root mystical experience. All religion does is shape one's INTERPRETATION of such experiences. Now the word mysticism, according to the etymology of the word, implies a relation to mystery. Thus experiences of mystery religions can be traced back to mystical experiences.

Mystical experiences have four primary characteristics. First, mystical experiences are in some way, ineffable, meaning they cannot be put into words. This means they can only be experienced, not taught. Second, mystical experiences are noetic, or convey a knowledge or truth value. Third, mystical experiences are transient; they're temporary and only last for a short time. Lastly, mystical experiences are passive. They cannot be fabricated or manufactured at will and it is as if you're 'posessed' by some other will force.

So let's think a bit about what all this implies for Traditional Wicca's exclusive claim to their mysteries. The first characteristic, as mentioned, means that the mystery material cannot be taught, but only experienced. Thus the availability of a linaged coven is not neccesarily a guarentee you'll have these experiences and you can have them on your own as well. The second characteristic implies that those who do not follow Traditional Wicca may receive the knoweldge of the God and Goddess without conventional coven training. The last characteristic implies something similar to the first, but let me make a few notes here.

Although mystical experience CANNOT be manufactured and is spontaneous, there ARE techniques that can help it to occur. The techniques (such as meditation) can be learned in MANY places, certainly not just in Traditional Wiccan covens.

Here's the real catch to all this though. As I mentioned, a structured religious system provides the framework from which mystical experience is interpreted. Now, if you're base framework is different, you're going to have different experiences. The question raised here, then, becomes, are the basal frameworks of Traditional Wicca and Dedicatory Wicca close enough to yield comparably similar mystical experiences? And is there really any way to fairly evaluate this question given the ineffable and highly personal quality of the experiences themselves?

I'll stop here, as I think I've rambled on enough. If some of this doesn't make sense, please DO ask questions. Or you can do some of your own research on Wililam James' ideas concerning mystical experience. whee
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The Coven

 
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