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Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:23 pm


My friend is going to attempt to solve the Yang-Mills/Mass Gap hypothesis problem over the summer. Any suggestions?

For those of you who aren't familiar with the problem, it's an attempt to understand theoretically and mathematically why some quantum particles have positive mass even though classical waves travel at the speed of light.

Official problem description:
http://www.claymath.org/millennium/Yang-Mills_Theory/Official_Problem_Description.pdf

I'm sure we can all agree that he's doomed, because he's a college sophomore, but still...
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:19 am


Everyone needs some goal to reach for smile

You never know, they could have some brilliant new insight, that solves it, just like penicilin say.

*wanders off humming Impossible Dream from Man of La mancha*

Dave the lost


A Lost Iguana
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:47 pm


[ Message temporarily off-line ]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:31 am


aim 4 nothing and u wont miss

aim 4 the stars and u will hit the sky

xXDevils_AdvocateXx


Friendship coordinator

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:09 am


Layra-chan

I'm sure we can all agree that he's doomed, because he's a college sophomore, but still...

He's more than doomed. I would be impressed if a sophomore could understand the problem to begin with.
If he has exceptional talent, then he stands a chance at understanding some of the work done on the problem so far.
However he definitely won't solve it, or even make a decent attempt.

This, the Navier Stokes and P = NP are probably the three hardest of the problems, in my opinion.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:52 am


Friendship coordinator
Layra-chan

I'm sure we can all agree that he's doomed, because he's a college sophomore, but still...

He's more than doomed. I would be impressed if a sophomore could understand the problem to begin with.
If he has exceptional talent, then he stands a chance at understanding some of the work done on the problem so far.
However he definitely won't solve it, or even make a decent attempt.

This, the Navier Stokes and P = NP are probably the three hardest of the problems, in my opinion.


Is it any coincidence that these are also probably the most useful outside of pure mathematics?
He seems to understand the problem itself, as far as I can tell (me being another college sophomore, so what do I know...). I'm not sure about any of the work that's been done toward solving the problem.

Layra-chan
Crew


Friendship coordinator

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:14 pm


Layra-chan

Is it any coincidence that these are also probably the most useful outside of pure mathematics?

My reasons for considering them as such are as follows:

Unlike most of the others they don't have a significant amount of work behind them. They haven't the same kind of bounds and refinements and there isn’t as many active researchers in the relevant areas. Universities which list these three are much rarer than universities that list the other four as research areas.

You have Lilley, Atiyah, Simms et al for the Hodge conjecture, not to mention the fact that the Hodge conjecture is in such an active area. In fact probably maths most active area if you average out over the post-Euler era. (Possibly even post-Descartes)

An entire cross-disciplinary group for the Riemann Hypothesis, composed of complex analysists, number theorists, geometers. Even people who work on foundational QM. The Riemann Hypothesis ties into so much that it attracts talent from many different areas.

The Poincaré conjecture is so old a problem that it ties into the very foundations of algebraic topology and even point-set topology, so it has quite a background in the literature of said subject.

I'll grant that the Birch and Swinnerton-Dyer conjecture isn't worked on that much, but it does have solutions in special cases. Something the other problems can't boast.
(Although I admit that point is mute for the Navier-Stokes equations as all they're looking for is a special case.)

Now let's look at the other three.

The Navier-Stokes Equation is counter-intuitively possibly the most difficult in my opinion. Whoever solves it may actually have to extend the current body of knowledge concerning PDEs, before they attempt to solve it.
It also is given much more lee-way than any of the other problems. You only have to prove one of four statements. However each of these are still open in the case of the Euler Equations, so you'd have to be able to show it for the Euler Equations, before you could really think about moving on to the Navier-Stokes.

Now P = NP, is located within a new and relatively active area, complexity theory. As the area is new, there isn't really much written yet with regards to the problem. (Compared with other problems.) Not only that, but complexity theory is still not entirely axiomatic and quite a lot of foundational issues are in question. Some think that Complexity Theory may need to be redefined for P = NP to be probably discussed. Others think it is entirely independent of the current axioms.
To sum up, it's too young a problem in too young an area. Not to mention the area's popularity is confined to certain geographical regions. It isn't even offered as a course in a lot of Universities.

And finally, Yang-Mills and the mass gap. The first difficulty lies in the sheer amount of prerequisite knowledge required to fully understand the problem. First a good knowledge of QFT, which itself can take years to assemble. Then a full appreciation of the work in constructive quantum field theory. That alone isn't a task I'd like to set for myself.
Now moving on, the problem itself has as a prerequisite that you construct the first ever completely axiomatic and well-defined Quantum Field Theory. Nobody has ever done that. Then you have to show that this leads to the mass-gap.
Edward Witten said "It is a problem for 21st century mathematics, but it's not for now". We don't know enough about operator-valued distribution themselves to start talking about the problem.

I hope that explains why I think what I think.

Layra-chan

He seems to understand the problem itself, as far as I can tell (me being another college sophomore, so what do I know...)

You have to understand, for that to be true he would have to have uncharacteristically extensive knowledge for his age. This isn't about him being to young to get it, I just can't imagine somebody having read what is necessary by that age.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:16 pm


I dissagree about the p-vs-np problem and the Riemann hypothesis as well. P vs np is a problem that can be explained in fairly basic terms to just about anyone which is something that isn't true (or at least not to the same extent) about the other problems. Furthermore the p vs np problem could conceivably be solved by some upstart somewhere simply discovering a polynomial time algorithm to solve the traveling sales man problem. Of course that would require that np is a subset of p but that is what the whole problem is about so we don't know that it is not! Furthermore you really can't tell how hard a problem is until you have solved it so really the best predictor of how hard a problem is, is how many attempts to solve it, it has repelled. In that sense I would think that the yang-mills and the riemann hypothesis with maybe the hodge conjecture would sit on top of the pile in terms of difficulty and I would put the riemann hypothesis as the most likely to continue to evade solution since it has been around the longest with the most devoted followers.

paradigmwind


Friendship coordinator

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:42 pm


paradigmwind
I dissagree about the p-vs-np problem and the Riemann hypothesis as well. P vs np is a problem that can be explained in fairly basic terms to just about anyone which is something that isn't true (or at least not to the same extent) about the other problems. Furthermore the p vs np problem could conceivably be solved by some upstart somewhere simply discovering a polynomial time algorithm to solve the traveling sales man problem.

Is it really that likely though? I tend to agree with most complexity theorists in that it will require some major revision of the subject.
Also the problem can be explained to a layman, but that doesn't mean a layman can easily grasp its rigorous formulation.

paradigmwind
In that sense I would think that the yang-mills and the riemann hypothesis with maybe the hodge conjecture would sit on top of the pile in terms of difficulty and I would put the riemann hypothesis as the most likely to continue to evade solution since it has been around the longest with the most devoted followers.

Yang-Mills hasn't been hugely concentrated on though compared with most of them. The Hodge conjecture is similarly very niche. Algebraic Topology on complex manifolds is a very minor area.
Again I think the Riemannian Hypothesis has had so much work done on it, that it is one of the most complete of the problems. Remember its study didn't really take off until the 90s.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:27 pm


Friendship coordinator

Is it really that likely though? I tend to agree with most complexity theorists in that it will require some major revision of the subject.
Also the problem can be explained to a layman, but that doesn't mean a layman can easily grasp its rigorous formulation.
I don't think there is really much chance of a layman solving it at all but I think that there is far more chance than with the other problems thus my putting it as one of the easiest. But again we won't know how hard it really is until its been solved so it could very easily be the hardest of them I just wouldn't say that there is much evidence for it either way.

Friendship coordinator

Yang-Mills hasn't been hugely concentrated on though compared with most of them. The Hodge conjecture is similarly very niche. Algebraic Topology on complex manifolds is a very minor area.
Again I think the Riemannian Hypothesis has had so much work done on it, that it is one of the most complete of the problems. Remember its study didn't really take off until the 90s.


It is dangerous to consider having a proof of something almost complete since something that is almost prooved could still turn out to be false. The fact that even in the face of such great efforts the riemann hypothesis has not yet been prooved but only "almost" prooved is a good indicator that it is an extremely hard problem. Also I would hardly say that the riemann hypothesis didn't "take off" before the 90's it is the only remaining hillbert problem and so work on the riemann hypothesis has been going on on a large scale at least since hilbert declared his problems at the turn of the century. I'm not sure how well yang-mills compares in manhours with the others but I would say that it is no lightweight. Considering the energy that has been put into gauge theories ever since the discovery of gauge symmetries in the electromagnetics of maxwell I would say that it definitely is a contender for top number of manhours.

paradigmwind


Friendship coordinator

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:17 am


paradigmwind
The fact that even in the face of such great efforts the riemann hypothesis has not yet been prooved but only "almost" prooved is a good indicator that it is an extremely hard problem. Also I would hardly say that the riemann hypothesis didn't "take off" before the 90's it is the only remaining hillbert problem and so work on the riemann hypothesis has been going on on a large scale at least since hilbert declared his problems at the turn of the century. I'm not sure how well yang-mills compares in manhours with the others but I would say that it is no lightweight. Considering the energy that has been put into gauge theories ever since the discovery of gauge symmetries in the electromagnetics of maxwell I would say that it definitely is a contender for top number of manhours.

Perhaps.
Again all I can offer is my reasons. You make a good case against mine.
As you said we can't really rank them in order of difficulty. This is merely how I rank them.

With regards to Yang-Mills, the necessary area, Axiomatic Quantum Field Theory, still hasn't really been brought to life fully.
Gauge Theory has been studies to a very extreme degree, but attempts to make QFT axiomatic and rigorous, which is what the problem is about, are few and far between.

The problem is:
Prove that for any compact simple gauge group G, a non-trivial quantum Yang-Mills theory exists on R4...........

Again, what I'm saying is that the Navier-Stokes, Yang-Mills and P = NP, will be the last to be solved because the solution lies in areas that have not yet been created fully.
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