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Pelta

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:06 pm


I am a classical music elitist and enjoy going to concerts on a regular basis. One thing that has always irked me more than anything else is when people cough during concerts. There is nothing more likely to ruin a slow movement than a well-placed expectoration. Especially in the quietest, sweetest moments of the piece. Now I know it's a perfectly normal bodily function but nobody coughs as much normally as they do in concert halls. It's like as soon as the audience sits down together they all contract consumption! I believe it's a psychological thing, that people hear something beautiful and wish to either be a part of or destroy it.

So I did a little study. I went to a lovely Joshua Bell concert tonight in the Dublin National Concert Hall and tallied up the number of coughs. Coughs only counted while music was being played, and counted double during a particularly quiet bit. Here are my findings:

Schubert Violin Sonata in A major: 33 coughs, 11 in the slow movement.
Schubert Rondo Brilliante in B minor: 19

This makes an average of 1.3777 coughs per minute in the first half.

Schubert Violin Sonata in G minor: 48 coughs, 21 in the slow movement
Schubert Fantasy in C major (which was amazing): 44 coughs.

This makes an average of 1.88 coughs per minute in the second half, and the annoyance that took the cake: The long, drawn out plastic sweet wrapper during the fantasy. Oh, and there were explosions of coughing between every movement of the sonatas.

Now here is my question. I payed good money for my ticket to hear a world class violinist. I did not pay to hear Joe Shmoe from round the corner hack his lungs out. Do any of you have this same annoyance and wish to vent your anger about this? If so, be my guest.

And here is what I propose we do about it: All concert halls should be equipped with snipers. With silencers, of course. And impeccable aim. twisted
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:44 pm


I am only annoyed when coughs are disruptive like the person had bronchitis, but a slight "kff" gives a little bit of reality to the concert and is no giant issue to me. Chamber recitals I tend to find coughing annoying as the experience is a little more intimate.

Candy wrappers are inexcusable.

Historically, concert hall silence is a relatively new thing as is was mostly enforced in the late 19th century. Before then it was normal to cough on occasion or even chat quietly while music is playing.

In Vivaldi's time, it was impolite to be quiet in a concert, and coughing was encouraged in between movements to show appreciation. In Mozart's time, conversation often had to compete with the music to be heard.

Malemocynt

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Pelta

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:41 am


Malemocynt
Historically, concert hall silence is a relatively new thing as is was mostly enforced in the late 19th century. Before then it was normal to cough on occasion or even chat quietly while music is playing.


Very true. Especially, I believe, in sacred music where the congregation couldn't clap and instead showed their appreciation by coughing and shuffling their feet. But at least that proved they were actually listening to the music. I'll even do little silent ooohs and ahs at particularly splendid moments, because I'm totally absorbed in the music I'm listening to. What I've noticed more than anything else at concerts, not just in Dublin but moreso than other places, is that people cough pathetically or eat sweets or even snore* because they couldn't care less about the music. If they don't care they shouldn't be there.

It's interesting to contrast that with audiences in Budapest, Hungary, where I used to live. Not a peep the whole concert, not even between movements. But if they didn't like something, man did you know about it. Gidon Kremer once played some contemporary piece in a concert I went to there, very experimental, quiet and full of very high harmonics. The audience hated it. It sounded like they were trying to drown him out with their coughing. He had to stop and start over again. And you should have seen the glare that Brendel shot at a cougher during a slow movement in Dublin. Now coughing is disrespectful and shows that you don't care about the music. Perhaps it was once acceptable but now the musicians don't want to hear their hard work destroyed by some ignorant yahoo who can't keep a simple cough down. That's just disrespectful.

*This has happened in Dublin. I can't remember the concert but it was in the third row, and loud.
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:47 am


I hate the coughing during pieces too, however, I find it worse if it's on a recording. You know, those excellent '40s and '50s live recordings..the best interpretations, but THAT kind of live sound. gonk I remember one particular copy of a Mahler symphony I DL'd (don't remember which one) was a live recording from the '50s....for the first TWELVE MINUTES of the first movement there was a man coughing, and I ******** swear he thought the conductor wasn't doing his job so he was trying to keep time! gonk Seriously....it was like 1...2...3....4....Cough....Cough....Cough....Cough..., repeat.

Fortunately, in the area I go to concerts at the coughing issue isn't really a big thing. You'll occasionally get a cough within the piece but it's not likely, most people manage to hold in their coughing until between movements. However, it can be amazingly loud between movements due to that.

Harvested Sorrow
Crew


Saurencaerthai

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:07 am


Take a small high school auditorium, which might seat between 500-900. Now, you've got to figure that at least one person might have a cold and at least a few are being affected by some allergens. Now figure that someone might just have to caugh because, hey, it's a natural biological function to rid the body of a potentially harmful irritant. Now apply the figures to Boston Symphony Hall, which seats 2,625 during symphony season. We're dealing with humans here, not mannequins. When you go to a concert, you are not going to a record tracking session, you are going to a concert with -gasp- PEOPLE in the audience! Obviously, if someone is hacking out their right lung, they might want to excuse themselves from the hall, but with that large a number of people in a room, you can't expect people to hold to a quota of caughs.

Honestly, caughing should be the least of everyone's worries right now. There are greater breaches of etiquette afoot, the worst being the latecomer walking right on in whilst the orchestra is in the middle of a movement, or even better, someone who has no emergency, then simply feels like walking out before a break. THOSE are the people whom I wish to club with an usher's Mag-lite.
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:54 am


Saurencaerthai
Take a small high school auditorium, which might seat between 500-900. Now, you've got to figure that at least one person might have a cold and at least a few are being affected by some allergens. Now figure that someone might just have to caugh because, hey, it's a natural biological function to rid the body of a potentially harmful irritant. Now apply the figures to Boston Symphony Hall, which seats 2,625 during symphony season. We're dealing with humans here, not mannequins. When you go to a concert, you are not going to a record tracking session, you are going to a concert with -gasp- PEOPLE in the audience! Obviously, if someone is hacking out their right lung, they might want to excuse themselves from the hall, but with that large a number of people in a room, you can't expect people to hold to a quota of caughs.

Now consider that an orchestra/choir/soloist has prepared for this concert for anywhere between several months to several years. They have put their heart, soul and effort into their specific interpretation of this piece to perform and share with the world. Every note is breathtaking, that is, the ones you can hear over the coughing. Have you ever tried holding a cough in? It's irritating, but actually not that hard. Sure if you've got bronchitis or something you can cough or leave the hall, but if you're that sick to begin with you should be at home in bed getting better. You see what I mean? It's not the function I object to, it's the deliberate destruction of the music that someone has worked so hard to present to you. And I say deliberate because you can tell many of those people didn't NEED to cough. They just felt like it and didn't care enough about the music to hold it in. That's what I find disrespectful. To me it's somewhat akin to sneezing a loogie onto an original Van Gogh or Monet. Sure it's a natural function, but you've just destroyed something beautiful forever.

Pelta


Saurencaerthai

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:20 pm


missmagpie
Saurencaerthai
Take a small high school auditorium, which might seat between 500-900. Now, you've got to figure that at least one person might have a cold and at least a few are being affected by some allergens. Now figure that someone might just have to caugh because, hey, it's a natural biological function to rid the body of a potentially harmful irritant. Now apply the figures to Boston Symphony Hall, which seats 2,625 during symphony season. We're dealing with humans here, not mannequins. When you go to a concert, you are not going to a record tracking session, you are going to a concert with -gasp- PEOPLE in the audience! Obviously, if someone is hacking out their right lung, they might want to excuse themselves from the hall, but with that large a number of people in a room, you can't expect people to hold to a quota of caughs.

Now consider that an orchestra/choir/soloist has prepared for this concert for anywhere between several months to several years. They have put their heart, soul and effort into their specific interpretation of this piece to perform and share with the world. Every note is breathtaking, that is, the ones you can hear over the coughing. Have you ever tried holding a cough in? It's irritating, but actually not that hard. Sure if you've got bronchitis or something you can cough or leave the hall, but if you're that sick to begin with you should be at home in bed getting better. You see what I mean? It's not the function I object to, it's the deliberate destruction of the music that someone has worked so hard to present to you. And I say deliberate because you can tell many of those people didn't NEED to cough. They just felt like it and didn't care enough about the music to hold it in. That's what I find disrespectful. To me it's somewhat akin to sneezing a loogie onto an original Van Gogh or Monet. Sure it's a natural function, but you've just destroyed something beautiful forever.


Certainly, I will concur that sometimes it is stifleable. However, I know for myself that I had one or two that were unpreventable. It happens. Then again, I may also be slightly desensitized to it because I've had to pray to the heavens above that one more idiot doesn't deside to walk in mid-movement and let the door close loudly.
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:53 am


Saurencaerthai
Certainly, I will concur that sometimes it is stifleable. However, I know for myself that I had one or two that were unpreventable. It happens. Then again, I may also be slightly desensitized to it because I've had to pray to the heavens above that one more idiot doesn't deside to walk in mid-movement and let the door close loudly.

Heh. I know that feeling all too well. At least they don't let people in mid-movement here. And if I ever work as an usher in the NCH they will feel my wrath! What area do you live in, if you don't mind my asking? Because most concert halls I've been to don't exactly treat it like a movie theatre...

Pelta


Emmanuela

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:08 am


It highly annoys me, but what is even worse is when you're trying to perform and you need to cough... Espcially when you're playing the clarinet>.<

I also find it annoying when you have tall people infront of you, I mean yeah, they can't help their hight, and its a purely selfish thing, but man, it annoys me!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:41 pm


Emmanuela
It highly annoys me, but what is even worse is when you're trying to perform and you need to cough... Espcially when you're playing the clarinet>.<
Have you ever played a wind instrument in the middle of a bout of hiccups? It's hilarious!

Pelta


Wildervast
Captain

Space Werewolf

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:35 pm


I don't like coughing either. Bring cough drops and water, people.

Similar subject: small children at concerts. Sometimes I love children and think little kids are the coolest people ever, sometimes I really want to skip the whole baby thing when I get married and just adopt some five-year-olds.
One of my previous orchestras performed Mozart's third violin concerto; the concert we recorded was at a local church with particularly nice acoustics. The first movement went well, but just as the orchestra dropped out for the cadenza, you can hear a baby wailing in the background. xd The soloist waited until that was over before she continued, of course.

On the other hand, our concerts were free, and I only remember that particular incident because it was on the recording and it was right at the cadenza.
I'm all for children being exposed to classical music, but please, leave very young babies at home with other family or a sitter if the performance is being recorded.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:50 pm


yeah, i've never been to a big ol' orcastra concert thing, but at school concerts, piano recitals, and a whole whack of jazz concerts, there's always coughing. and then there's the whole thing of bringing crying babies, or bratty little stubborn kids to concerts, AND THE THEATRES TOO! god i hate that, every friggin' movie i go to there's a million crying, wyning kids. the sniper thing is a good idea twisted

Dazaii

Lonely Gaian


Verbena Moonsong
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:41 pm


Man, it's been a while since I've been on gaia. Anyway.

Emmanuela
It highly annoys me, but what is even worse is when you're trying to perform and you need to cough... Espcially when you're playing the clarinet>.<

I also find it annoying when you have tall people infront of you, I mean yeah, they can't help their hight, and its a purely selfish thing, but man, it annoys me!

YES I agree with all of this. Except change clarinet to voice.... yeah freshman and sophomore year of high school, I had coughing fits in the school musicals, of course they were in pretty serious exposed chorale-type parts (i.e., Sabbath Prayer in Fiddler on the Roof, and the Children of Eden chorale in Children of Eden).

But yeah. As (I think?) the resident Looney Tunes fanatic.... I wish this cartoon were online somewhere, but if you ever get the chance to see "Rhapsody Rabbit," there is a part where Bugs Bunny is about to play, and you hear loud coughing from the audience, and he waits... happens again, he waits... finally he gets fed up and does something I think we've all wanted to do at some point or another. xd

And yeah I already checked YouTube... not there. crying

And...

missmagpie

I went to a lovely Joshua Bell concert tonight in the Dublin National Concert Hall and tallied up the number of coughs.


Dude. How could you be distracted thus from his ineffable hotness talent?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:14 pm


I'm not lucky enough to go to concerts like that. Just my horrid high school concerts, where for some ungodly reason, everyone brings their snot-nosed toddlers and whining babies who decide they need to scream and cry and throw a fit in the middle of a song. I absolutely loathe children, for several reasons, but this is one of the top ones. Leave your damn young children at home unless they know how to act properly! I know babies in general can't help it, but why are you bringing a baby anyway? Hire a babysitter for goodness sake, it's not like it's going to remember the concert anyway.

Roslin


angelofmusic24

Wheezing Fatcat

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:00 pm


I know what you mean. When I was at district chorus, there was someone who coughed really loud during one of the slower, beautiful a cappella pieces. Right in the beginning when the guys sound so pretty. crying biggrin I can usually deal with crying babies cause they actually cry at the most random parts of the songs. xd
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