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lu-tze

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:05 am


Quote:
Parasite;
3.An animal which lives during the whole or part of its existence on or in the body of some other animal, feeding upon its food, blood, or tissues, as lice, tapeworms, etc. (b) An animal which steals the food of another, as the parasitic jager. (c) An animal which habitually uses the nest of another, as the cowbird and the European cuckoo.


Ss far as Pro-Choicers would have a feotus as a Parasite, it would mean that the born population are also Parasites.
Also, when it comes to choice, the Feotus is considered "part of the woman's body" so there is a choice to remove that part, but when it comes to explaining this, it becomes a parasite, which would stop it being part of the body. Of course, when they say it is a parasite, they could say it was never part of their body...

Quote:
parasite

n 1: an animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or plant); the parasite obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host

This appears to be the generic deffinition. This would mean that yes, to a certain extent a feotus could be considered a parasite. This extent being that it, "obtains nourishment from the host" and is "An animal plant".
The fact that this is what the female body is supposed to do doesn't seem to factor in.
A child does bring benefits at some point to the parent, it is just a case of letting the benefits occur.

Another point, is that a born child can very easily fit the same definitions, and only isn't a symbiotic relationship when the parent won't allow it.

As the child is actually giving benefits back, it cannot be considered a parasite. If the parent is either unwilling to, or otherwise can not or will not accept them, then the benefits are still being given, just the metaphorical cheque is never cashed in.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:04 pm


I REALLY cannot stand this saying. It distubs me on sooooo many levels.

First off, if it's a parasite, then YOU were a parasite too, and that's not a plesant thought. Second, this is a LIFE, a life you CREATED, it is SO AMAZING! The thought of someone taking something like this and throwing it into a vacuum with sharp blades and expecting everyone to aplaude you for "chooise the right choise" is DISGUSTING.

Plus, yes, the baby obtains nourishments. Hurrah, you got .05% right. BUT THEY BENIFIT YOU!!!! I have NEVER EVER met anyone who has had a baby say that it was NOT BENIFITING. Even people who give thier baby up for adoption, and NEVER SEE IT AGAIN, it's still wonderful. This arguement makes me cry every single time.

Good on you for defining it out. thanks!

Kidagara

Newbie Cleric


lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:54 am


next time someone says that to you, say, does that make you a full grown parasite, or a parasite's evolved form? Lol I personally don't get it. These are the same people who's be devestated if a cat had to have all of its kittens killed inside of it. "but...but...they're just little kittens!" according to you, they must be parasites.... Now how can I say this for sure?

At the beginning of Highschool I was in the popular crowd. they complained bitterly about how abortion was so "evil in society" and how it made so much sense to keep it legal because the "fetus" is a "parasite." I got fed up and one day quietly said, "My cat just had its kittens aborted." Shocked silence.
"What? Why?"
"Well, we can't really deal with kittens right now. It doesn't fit in with our lifestyle. Besides, the cat was obviously in pain, we didn't want her to go through too much."
"But...you coulda just put it up for adoption!"
"Well by your logic they're just parasites, aren't they?" Then I got sorta kicked out of the group but I really didn't care. They were mad because they couldn't say anything more than, "Well that's different, loser." yeah....I still laugh about it to this day.

I agree. A life is a life. Why is it that you feel that you can decide if a baby dies? Life is a wonderful, beautiful thing. That's a good point, lu-tze, I hadn't really thought about how it's a contradiction to say it's a part of a woman's body and a parasite at the same time.

What I want to know is if a pregnant woman gets stabbed by a mugger and the baby gets killed, he or she killed a child that the woman wanted and loved, does he only get fined for assault or destruction of property at most? Because after all, it isn't a person. No one can ever answer that question. Losing a child and not even being able to even have the satisfaction of knowing that person is behind bars and won't get another chance to kill a child again for a long, long time, all the loss you've suffered boiled down to well it's not a person anyway.

When I ask this, I get responses like, "Well, they've got Lacey's law," or, "Of course it's murder." So I ask why it's murder and some say, "because a baby got killed." And then they realize what they said and shut up. some say, "Well, the woman shouldn't be so upset, she never even knew it." I gotta wonder if the people who say that ever had kids. But I think I"ve got a valid point. why is a a fetus a parasite when the mother doesn't want it, but a child when she does? it can't be both at once. if you take two fetuses, both at the same stage, why is one a baby and one a parasite? That makes no sense whatsoever. Either they're both babies or they're both parasites, and if they're both parasites, there isn't much protecting the mother from so much emotional pain if the worst should happen and someone else causes that baby's death. didn't mean to type so much, I get so upset I start crying thinking about it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness means as much now as it did when it was written. It's only for certain people. Back then it wasn't for slaves, obviously, or they'd have been liberated. And now it's not true for children too young to even defend themselves. In many cases, all three were taken away back then and all three are being taken away now. We haven't progressed as a species one bit if killing is the answer to a conflict of lifestyle. Sorry, I know I rant. the short of it is, I agree with you 100%, you can't have it both ways, and a fetus is not a parasite, it's a baby.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:56 am


lymelady
next time someone says that to you, say, does that make you a full grown parasite, or a parasite's evolved form? Lol I personally don't get it. These are the same people who's be devestated if a cat had to have all of its kittens killed inside of it. "but...but...they're just little kittens!" according to you, they must be parasites.... Now how can I say this for sure?

At the beginning of Highschool I was in the popular crowd. they complained bitterly about how abortion was so "evil in society" and how it made so much sense to keep it legal because the "fetus" is a "parasite." I got fed up and one day quietly said, "My cat just had its kittens aborted." Shocked silence.
"What? Why?"
"Well, we can't really deal with kittens right now. It doesn't fit in with our lifestyle. Besides, the cat was obviously in pain, we didn't want her to go through too much."
"But...you coulda just put it up for adoption!"
"Well by your logic they're just parasites, aren't they?" Then I got sorta kicked out of the group but I really didn't care. They were mad because they couldn't say anything more than, "Well that's different, loser." yeah....I still laugh about it to this day.

I agree. A life is a life. Why is it that you feel that you can decide if a baby dies? Life is a wonderful, beautiful thing. That's a good point, lu-tze, I hadn't really thought about how it's a contradiction to say it's a part of a woman's body and a parasite at the same time.

What I want to know is if a pregnant woman gets stabbed by a mugger and the baby gets killed, he or she killed a child that the woman wanted and loved, does he only get fined for assault or destruction of property at most? Because after all, it isn't a person. No one can ever answer that question. Losing a child and not even being able to even have the satisfaction of knowing that person is behind bars and won't get another chance to kill a child again for a long, long time, all the loss you've suffered boiled down to well it's not a person anyway.

When I ask this, I get responses like, "Well, they've got Lacey's law," or, "Of course it's murder." So I ask why it's murder and some say, "because a baby got killed." And then they realize what they said and shut up. some say, "Well, the woman shouldn't be so upset, she never even knew it." I gotta wonder if the people who say that ever had kids. But I think I"ve got a valid point. why is a a fetus a parasite when the mother doesn't want it, but a child when she does? it can't be both at once. if you take two fetuses, both at the same stage, why is one a baby and one a parasite? That makes no sense whatsoever. Either they're both babies or they're both parasites, and if they're both parasites, there isn't much protecting the mother from so much emotional pain if the worst should happen and someone else causes that baby's death. didn't mean to type so much, I get so upset I start crying thinking about it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness means as much now as it did when it was written. It's only for certain people. Back then it wasn't for slaves, obviously, or they'd have been liberated. And now it's not true for children too young to even defend themselves. In many cases, all three were taken away back then and all three are being taken away now. We haven't progressed as a species one bit if killing is the answer to a conflict of lifestyle. Sorry, I know I rant. the short of it is, I agree with you 100%, you can't have it both ways, and a fetus is not a parasite, it's a baby.
Some one posted that a fetus is a parasite & I posted that we were a parasite once. It's not like why are a virus or a little c**k roach. Your right. A fetus is a baby.

~Saji Mamimi~


~Saji Mamimi~

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:58 am


Kidagara
I REALLY cannot stand this saying. It distubs me on sooooo many levels.

First off, if it's a parasite, then YOU were a parasite too, and that's not a plesant thought. Second, this is a LIFE, a life you CREATED, it is SO AMAZING! The thought of someone taking something like this and throwing it into a vacuum with sharp blades and expecting everyone to aplaude you for "chooise the right choise" is DISGUSTING.

Plus, yes, the baby obtains nourishments. Hurrah, you got .05% right. BUT THEY BENIFIT YOU!!!! I have NEVER EVER met anyone who has had a baby say that it was NOT BENIFITING. Even people who give thier baby up for adoption, and NEVER SEE IT AGAIN, it's still wonderful. This arguement makes me cry every single time.

Good on you for defining it out. thanks!
I agree with you 2 ladies here here. It is realy disturbing. I can't stand it either!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:06 pm


The parasite argument is just completely wrong.

The order and function of the parasite vs. the child is completely different. It's just such an easily fallable argument.

DCVI
Vice Captain


Rogue Of Time

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:31 pm


((wipes sweat off his brow)) Sorry for not posting. I've been working at the courts on-site for the last few days so I haven't had time to come on here. @_@;;

Yeah, that's another argument I hear a lot. That the child is just a parasite, or that the mother has to go through the pain of pregnancy... stuff like that. I really don't understand why it matters... growing children could be considered a "financial parasite" (as well as middle-aged men who haven't moved out of mommy's house yet, lol) and that isn't exactly beneficial to the "host". So... the "host" should kill the parasites? O_o;; Weird argument...

And seriously, that earlier comment about the kittens? Absolute genius! I'm going to have to use that in my arguments from now on... especially with the "oh so kind" women who still insist that it's their body and they can do whatever they want with it. >_>
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:11 pm


I just realized the flaw I was looking for. The argument that newborns breastfeed to live, and are technically parasites because they need to feed from the mother's nutrients in order to survive. IT was pointed out that women can pump and there's soy. It was also pointed out that this was a way that a new born could survive without parasitism, whereas a newborn cannot at this point be given a substitution.

I failed to do what I normally do and think historically. Before there were breast pumps, before there were baby bottles, before you could pick up animal milk or soy milk at the corner store, there was nothing for those newborns but the mother's breasts. In this case, at this time, the woman should be able to kill the newborn by the parasite logic since at this time, there was no substitute for breast milk available. There wasn't the technology, there wasn't the knowledge. It was that or nothing. Right now, it's in the womb or die for fetuses. It's the same situation in different time periods. It's been nagging me for months that there was something I was missing and I couldn't think of it. THis would mean that back before other means were available, it was perfectly moral to shoot or stab your child because they were breastfeeding. Not only in another time, in places where people don't have these resources. This would mean that a breastfeeding newborn is a parasite and when no other options are available, it is moral to kill the child because you don't want him or her breastfeeding.

Was that a relevant point or do I need to get my meds switched back to normal, lol? I thought it made sense but I never make sense so....I'd like to know where it's flawed.

lymelady
Vice Captain


Theallpowerfull

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:25 pm


Historically there were nursemaids who were able to breastfeed for the noblewomen. So by your logic the only ones who were considered parasites were the children of the poor because the rich children didn't need their mother's milk. That's exactly the same as today because there are those who can't afford to buy food or it is unavailable to them so they must breastfeed.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:47 pm


By this sort of definition, all children are parasites. All children under the care of a guardian feed off of the resources of that guardian and provide no guarantee of a symbiotic relationship.

It's foolishness all around; the relationship between offspring and guardian is completely different from the relationship between parasite and host.

symphonic


~Saji Mamimi~

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:05 am


symphonic
By this sort of definition, all children are parasites. All children under the care of a guardian feed off of the resources of that guardian and provide no guarantee of a symbiotic relationship.

It's foolishness all around; the relationship between offspring and guardian is completely different from the relationship between parasite and host.

But people just don't see things our way & have to go off & probably say that to make us mad. I mean they think it's a fetus probably because they're trying not to think about killing an innocent little life. Now people are calling them parasites & they don't realize they're parasites to once then. A parasite is a bug not a human being. We are Humans. Some act like Asses & others act scared & others act whore like & others act with morals & with they're hearts. If a child is not going to have a brain but has the stem or if the mother can't live or if the woman was raped then ok. Realy though the mother who was a sexual victim should put the baby up for adoption. But if you are a whore who wants a even longer sex life you DO NOT use abortion for birth control. You just don't wanna face it that your a whore & you have a baby by a man you don't even know. You put the baby for adoption & don't tell me that it's even more sick than abortion because you are lieing through your scummy teeth. You just don't want to face the responsibilties of an adult. Your mother should be ashamed. Granting you life but you kill about 26 others. I hate society I swear.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:14 pm


No pro-choicers seem to get that fetuses living of their mothers is just how we reproduce. Yeah, I'm sorry I was born a mammal, too; as I pointed out in some ED thread, if humans just laid eggs and left them somewhere to develop on their own, we wouldn't be having this discussion! Some people may say they're sorry they were born, they didn't want to inconvienence their poor mother, they don't want the human species to exist, but before they're born, fetuses *can* think inside the uterus, and they have just as much of a self-preservation instinct as adults. I guarantee you if I offered to shoot these people in the head to eliminate such a horrible species of parasitic reproduction, they'd object. They'd object now, and they would have objected from the moment they could feel pain--*before* they were born.

La Veuve Zin

Rainbow Smoker

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