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Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

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Faith-based relationship issues

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Ophelias Bathwater
Crew

High-functioning Werewolf

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:33 pm


My partner and I have been together for a little over three years and we are discussing getting married soon. In preparation for that, I've been trying to have difficult discussions with him about the future in order to be sure we're on the same page regarding issues we think are important.

He's always been pretty private about his beliefs, aside from the time he gave me his testimony (which inspired my own conversion) and it's true he's got a clinical sort of scientific approach to faith, but I never really started doubting his faith until fairly recently, when I started asking his opinion of things.He calls himself Christian, but he doubts God's existence and he rejects Christ's divinity. He's a long line of scientific explanation to back up his point of view that in my opinion doesn't hold any water (isn't the whole point of faith believing in something that isn't scientifically provable?). But he seems really proud of it anyway.

This in opposition to what I believe to be true and what I believe the spirit of faith is all about. I don't believe he's a Christian in his heart and he doesn't seem interested in changing his point of view for me or anyone else.

We've argued about it before, and he doesn't want to take me seriously. He thinks it's silly that this is something I'd be willing to end our relationship over and would much rather leave the whole issue alone.

I think if I'm going to change my name, make a home with him and raise his children, it's deeply important to me that we share the same beliefs. I find this resistance in my heart against him and I don't want to enter into a marriage without resolving it. God does not want me to be married to a faithless person.

But then I think about the fact that his flawed, pseudo-intellectual testimony was what sealed my decision to give Christianity a try in the first place. Does that count for anything? Should I try to save him back? Is it wrong of me to worry about him not being "Christian enough"?

I'd like to ask for prayers and advice for R and for me and the steps we should take to resolve this division between us. Thank you.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:26 pm


Show him prophecy / the written word. Ask him how the following fits into his theory:


From the Old Testament:

        Quote:
        Isaiah 9:6 (NIV)

        6 For to us a child is born,
            to us a son is given,
            and the government will be on his shoulders.
            And he will be called
            Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
            Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


        Quote:
        Job 19:25-27 (NIV)

        25 I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
             and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[b]
        26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
             yet[c] in[d] my flesh I will see God;
        27 I myself will see him
             with my own eyes—I, and not another.
             How my heart yearns within me!

        Footnotes:

        a. Job 19:25 Or vindicator
        b. Job 19:25 Or on my grave
        c. Job 19:26 Or And after I awake, / though this body has been destroyed, / then
        d. Job 19:26 Or destroyed, / apart from


A human child, a male child, that would be "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" according to Isaiah. According to Job, Job would see God standing on earth after his resurrection. There's no skirting around it. The messiah would be God in the flesh. God would manifest as a human onto earth. Is your boyfriend waiting for God to incarnate still? Because the prophets are suggesting that he will. If not as Jesus, then as who?


From the New Testament:

- Jesus claiming that he was around before Abraham:

        Quote:
        John 8:56-58 (NIV)

        56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

        57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

        58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”



- Jude saying that our one and only Lord, Jesus, led Moses and the Israelites out of Egypt:

        Quote:
        Jude 1:4-5 (NIV)

        4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[a] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

        5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[b] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

        Footnotes:

        a. Jude 1:4 Or individuals who were marked out for condemnation
        b. Jude 1:5 Some early manuscripts Jesus


So, if Jesus was around to lead Moses, and if Jesus was around even before then, before Abraham even, then He is not mere human. If your boyfriend wants to continue with his intellectual theories concerning this, then he needs to accept this: "I am outright denying what's written in the prophets, what's spoken by Jesus and his apostles, and thus I accept that I am denying the faith". Because they are the foundation of our faith:

        Quote:
        Ephesians 2:20 (NIV)

        20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.


Ultimately, your boyfriend has a choice to make: to accept or deny this...

        Quote:
        Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV)

        8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
            neither are your ways my ways,”
            declares the Lord.
        9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
            so are my ways higher than your ways
            and my thoughts than your thoughts.


He's putting his intellect/himself on the pedestal instead of God, which is futile because God knows more than him. He, as God's creation, needs to humble himself under his Maker and submit himself to live according to every word that comes out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4; Micah 6:8).

---


As for his "psuedo-intellectual testimony" bringing you to faith: God uses whatever bridge is closest—as faulty and sinful as that bridge might be—to get us to the other side, away from confusion, out of the world/Babylon, a step closer to the truth. Only after coming into a deeper, more truthful acquaintance with Him do we realize, "I need to burn that bridge; it's sinful for me to stay on it".

For me, it was divination and witchcraft: the spirits I would contact to divine certain things told me the bible was true and that the God of the bible was also true. They hadn't let me down before (accurately divining lies of the people around me; they helped me avoid traps, so I trusted them). However, since I started reading from the front of the book, it wasn't long before I came across God's instructions to not engage in witchcraft, mediumship, divination, relying on other spirits that aren't Him. I even consulted the spirits about that (lol, you know, just to double check since these commands were speaking against them): they confirmed, it is true, I would be breaking YHWH's law (thus sinning) if I continued contact with them and they confirmed that he existed. I'm not gonna lie: I tried to rationalize that it was okay to continue contact with them, and tried to compare it to the Urim and Thummim, or casting lots (what I saw the Israelites and Levitical Priesthood doing in scripture). That went on for a good while. But one day I guess I had an epiphany, not so much over the fact that this was witchcraft/divination, but that I had an idol problem. I had to choose: am I going to worship YHWH? or be guided by other spirits and what seemed right to me? I chose YHWH/Jesus instead of the latter. I had to repent of divination even though it was what brought me to Christ. And for a while I felt handicapped: the divination was my spiritual crutch, I didn't know how to trust or apply scripture. All the more burdensome was how I couldn't avoid the lies my family would tell me anymore, but it actually worked out better that way: it provided opportunity for them to feel bad about lying to me; before, I was avoiding all that and only growing more cynical against them, harboring hate against other people for being liars. Knowing everything beforehand isn't necessarily better nor helpful in the grand scheme of things. Only what our Heavenly Father has chosen to reveal about the future is edifying.

So, for you, if you cannot get him to see the light after you've shown him scripture and prayed to our Heavenly Father for intervention: put a halt to any thoughts of marrying him. You will be unequally-yoked. And all those concerns you have about married life, how to raise your kids, are legitimate reasons to avoid marriage if things don't change. Burn that bridge if need be. I'll pray for you two, for our Heavenly Father to have mercy and grant him repentance.

When you approach him, keep this in mind:

        Quote:
        2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NIV)

        24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.


I'm assuming you haven't already discussed those verses with him (the verses I quoted at the beginning of my post). If you have, then I don't think anything else can convince him; God is going to have to intervene himself.

real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman


Islamic Teacher

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:01 pm


I say you should respect his opinions and try to concentrate on common ground, and not worry too much about the differences.
If you have kids in the future, one day they'll be old enough to make a decision to follow the beliefs of whichever parent they want to.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:54 pm


Thanks to you both for your insight. We talked at length about it after church on Sunday. Most of the problem is that he's VERY quiet about his faith (which I suspect is a learned trait- he was raised by agnostics) and becomes awkward when he's asked to talk about his faith. Which lead me to assume some things which were incorrect about him.

It's still not a completely resolved issue, and I'm honestly not sure if it ever will be. I just know I'm slightly more sure of things now.

Ophelias Bathwater
Crew

High-functioning Werewolf

13,725 Points
  • Trick or Treat 100
  • Unfortunate Abductee 175
  • Team Jacob 100
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