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Help: Good tourny team?

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Skyburn

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:23 am


Greninja (Protean) (SpA, Speed EV'd)
Hydropump
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
(Contemplating which rock move to use)

Tyrantrum (Attack, Defense)
Stealth Rock
Dragon Tail
Earthquake
???
Going to give it an Assault Vest

Alakazam (SpA, Speed)
Going to add Dream Eater
???
???
???

Metagross (Speed, Attack)
Bullet Punch
Zen Headbutt
Power Up Punch
???

Talonflame (Speed, Attack) Gale Wings
Acrobatics
Flame Charge
Going to add Brave Bird
???
Probably going to give it a Choice item and just make it super BAMF with Brave Bird. It'll go down, but it's taking something with it.

I need a good fifth.
Was thinking maybe an Imposter Ditto, just to add a wrench in the mix.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:20 pm


Skyburn


What are the rules for the tournament? Standard Smogon clauses? VGC rules?

Just from a quick look over, this appears to be a team full of glass cannons. I would recommend picking your favorites amongst them and sprinkle in some more reliable walls.

List of reliable walls:

Amoonguss, Blissey, Celebi, Chansey, Chesnaught, Clefable, Cofagrigus, Cresselia, Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gastrodon, Gliscor, Goodra, Gourgiest, Gyarados, Heatran, Hippowdon, Jellicent, Jirachi, Krookodile, Landorus-T, Latias, Mandibuzz, Mega Aggron, Mega Blastoise, Mega Charizard X, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Quagsire, Roserade, Rotom-H, Rotom-W, Sableye, Skarmory, Slowbro, Suicune, Sylveon, Tangrowth, Tentacruel, Togekiss, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Weezing and Zapdos.


Also, did you plan on running a Mega Evolution? Mega Evolutions are great starting points when it comes to constructing a team (either with setting up your Mega for the sweep or to use your Mega as a overall team threat checker).


Now, for a few specifics:


Skyburn
Alakazam (SpA, Speed)
Going to add Dream Eater
???
???
???


Don't use Dream Eater. In competitive play, its heavily unreliable and requires two VERY specific situations in order to work: the target must be asleep (and with most Sleep-inducing moves losing accuracy over the past few generations, that's harder now to achieve than ever before) and the target cannot be a Dark-type.

I would alternatively run an offensive set (as I said, glass cannon):
~ Psyshock
~ Focus Blast
~ Shadow Ball
~ Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Dazzling Gleam

Hidden Powers can be hard to obtain, so if you can't obtain them at a decent power, well... Dazzling Gleam isn't a bad as Option 3 as it can check some otherwise problematic Dragon-types.


Skyburn
Talonflame (Speed, Attack) Gale Wings
Acrobatics
Flame Charge
Going to add Brave Bird
???


Brave Bird and Flare Blitz are essentially mandatory on a Galewings Talonflame ("suicidal bird" just doing "suicidal things" so to speak). Depending on the variant you want to run, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Roost, U-Turn or even Tailwind are all decent options to consider.

Hopefully these little tidbits gave you at least a few things to think about.

Kyrenx
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Skyburn

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:28 pm


Kyrenx
Skyburn


What are the rules for the tournament? Standard Smogon clauses? VGC rules?

Just from a quick look over, this appears to be a team full of glass cannons. I would recommend picking your favorites amongst them and sprinkle in some more reliable walls.

List of reliable walls:

Amoonguss, Blissey, Celebi, Chansey, Chesnaught, Clefable, Cofagrigus, Cresselia, Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Gastrodon, Gliscor, Goodra, Gourgiest, Gyarados, Heatran, Hippowdon, Jellicent, Jirachi, Krookodile, Landorus-T, Latias, Mandibuzz, Mega Aggron, Mega Blastoise, Mega Charizard X, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Quagsire, Roserade, Rotom-H, Rotom-W, Sableye, Skarmory, Slowbro, Suicune, Sylveon, Tangrowth, Tentacruel, Togekiss, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Weezing and Zapdos.


Also, did you plan on running a Mega Evolution? Mega Evolutions are great starting points when it comes to constructing a team (either with setting up your Mega for the sweep or to use your Mega as a overall team threat checker).


Now, for a few specifics:


Skyburn
Alakazam (SpA, Speed)
Going to add Dream Eater
???
???
???


Don't use Dream Eater. In competitive play, its heavily unreliable and requires two VERY specific situations in order to work: the target must be asleep (and with most Sleep-inducing moves losing accuracy over the past few generations, that's harder now to achieve than ever before) and the target cannot be a Dark-type.

I would alternatively run an offensive set (as I said, glass cannon):
~ Psyshock
~ Focus Blast
~ Shadow Ball
~ Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Dazzling Gleam

Hidden Powers can be hard to obtain, so if you can't obtain them at a decent power, well... Dazzling Gleam isn't a bad as Option 3 as it can check some otherwise problematic Dragon-types.


Skyburn
Talonflame (Speed, Attack) Gale Wings
Acrobatics
Flame Charge
Going to add Brave Bird
???


Brave Bird and Flare Blitz are essentially mandatory on a Galewings Talonflame ("suicidal bird" just doing "suicidal things" so to speak). Depending on the variant you want to run, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Roost, U-Turn or even Tailwind are all decent options to consider.

Hopefully these little tidbits gave you at least a few things to think about.
It's a local tourny with my division. Pretty much the rules are "Don't be a jerk," and "No legendaries but Zapdos."

But, yeah, I'm pretty new to the pokemon scene again (I plaid Blue, Yellow, Silver, and Crystal and didn't touch it for years until very recently Black II and now Y), so I haven't really be refining my teams as well as some of those who played since Red/Blue.

I had considered Mega Charizard Y for my Mega, but he's kind of... still a glass cannon.

Any advice for what I should drop or add?
I probably should get a Fire type wall, or I could use a Rotom.

I'm very much considering using a Mega Abomasnow.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:30 am


Personally I like to use a Rocky Helmet along with Roost and Will-o-wisp (and of course B Bird and Flare Blitz) on my talonflame, but I'm in the extreme minority there. Catches people off guard, though, I'll tell you that much.

I second that Dream Eater is a terrible move. Alakazam is usually a sashed revenge killer, or possibly a life orb attacker. Don't expect it to sweep though, as priority is more prevelant than ever.

As for the last move on Greninja, I like to run Extrasensory to take care of Mega Venasaur as well as fighting types that might otherwise scare it off. Grass knot is a good option to take care of a few other things, though, notably Tyranitar (although I wouldn't get my hopes up for a OHKO as most people are running Assault Vest TTar lately) and Swampert.

Tyrantrum can't use Stealth Rocks if he's wearing an Assault Vest. Running at least one of the elemental Fang moves is a good idea since they get a 50% boost from it's ability. Thunder Fang is a good option for dealing with the flying types that he walls. I'd really suggest Tyranitar for this slot, though, as it can get Stealth Rocks and gets the free 50% boost to it's special defense from sandstorm, leaving the assault vest slot open for some other mon.

Porygon2 with Eviolite is a really decent wall, so long as you have something to soak up the fighting type attacks aimed at him (Slowbro is a really good partner for this purpose, as are ghost types such as Gengar)

You can really never go wrong with having Rotom-w, especially with Talonflame being so gods-damned prevelant.

I see you don't have a spinner in there or a magic bouncer, which is damn-near mandatory if you plan on running talonflame. Losing 50% of your health before you can even act really sucks, trust me. Espeon or Xatu are good for bouncing hazards back, but if you'd rather remove them than bounce, then Mega Blastoise is a great bulky spinner, as is Excadrill. Defog is an alternative, so Crobat (I think crobat can learn defog through breeding?) is good, although a little frail. It does remove hazards from both sides, though iirc.

I like to run Taunt on my lead, as most people like to set up Rocks on turn 1 with a focus sash. This is another place where Talonflame is great; they'll assume your Choice Banded and attempt to set up hazards, and you taunt. Then Brave Bird or Swords Dance, or switch to a counter to what they'll likely toss in to counter Talonflame. Infernape is a good lead Taunter as well, and if you run a mixed set can also be very dangerous. You can also breed Fake-Out onto Infernape, which helps to break those focus sashes before going for the KO with Close Combat or Overheat.

Hunter of the dusk
Crew


Skyburn

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:52 am


I am planning on doing Extrasensory:

I've got a Larvitar I'm planning on leveling up, possibly using as a Mega Tyrannitar, so ahead of you there.
It's got Stealth Rock on as an egg move. How do I EV train it, though? Attack is obvious, but do I go for HP, Defense, or Speed? I'm thinking it'd probably be good as a tank, and I do like the Stealth Rock-Dragon Tail combo. Running it as a starter has proved amazing in some of the few battles I've done, particularly against pokemon that need to be set-up or baton-passing.
That'd be swapping him out for Tyrantrum as well.

I was planning on running a Technician Scisor (w/ Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, Defog, and I forget what else).
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:36 am


Mega TTar is good if you plan on having him stay in for awhile, since you can delay the mega evo to refresh the sandstorm without switching (although it does have to have subsided for this to work). For this reason it's good against opposing weather setters, and if they have a weather setter on their team it would be good to hold off the mega evolution at least one turn. I'd train attack and... probably HP, maybe do a split between HP and Def. Woudn't do speed unless you plan on coice scarfing him, but then you wouldn't want to put stealth rocks on his movelist.

X-Scissor is usually a good move to have if you can't get Bug Bite (since it's a move tutor from last gen and cannot be bred to it in this gen, which is unfortunate since the breeding mechanics are far superior now). U-turn is often used on Scizor, though not usually with Swords Dance; it's usually used on pursuit sets with a choice band or life orb. Are you sure about Defog though? I'm fairly sure it would clear your stealth rocks when you use it. You mght be better served using roost instead, since you seem to be set on using TTar as a stealth rock lead. Oh, you might want to use Pursuit on your TTar for those pesky Espeons that like to bounce your stealth rocks back, although Crunch is better if you want to predict their switch in, and a lot of them do run baton pass specifically to avoid pursuit TTar. They can also run Dazzling Gleam now, so they can actually do some damage back to you, although you'll usually OHKO them while they can usually only 3HKO you in return at best.

Since you're setting up your own hazards, I would suggest a spinner over a defogger, though.

Hunter of the dusk
Crew


Skyburn

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:12 pm


Hunter of the dusk
Mega TTar is good if you plan on having him stay in for awhile, since you can delay the mega evo to refresh the sandstorm without switching (although it does have to have subsided for this to work). For this reason it's good against opposing weather setters, and if they have a weather setter on their team it would be good to hold off the mega evolution at least one turn. I'd train attack and... probably HP, maybe do a split between HP and Def. Woudn't do speed unless you plan on coice scarfing him, but then you wouldn't want to put stealth rocks on his movelist.

X-Scissor is usually a good move to have if you can't get Bug Bite (since it's a move tutor from last gen and cannot be bred to it in this gen, which is unfortunate since the breeding mechanics are far superior now). U-turn is often used on Scizor, though not usually with Swords Dance; it's usually used on pursuit sets with a choice band or life orb. Are you sure about Defog though? I'm fairly sure it would clear your stealth rocks when you use it. You mght be better served using roost instead, since you seem to be set on using TTar as a stealth rock lead. Oh, you might want to use Pursuit on your TTar for those pesky Espeons that like to bounce your stealth rocks back, although Crunch is better if you want to predict their switch in, and a lot of them do run baton pass specifically to avoid pursuit TTar. They can also run Dazzling Gleam now, so they can actually do some damage back to you, although you'll usually OHKO them while they can usually only 3HKO you in return at best.

Since you're setting up your own hazards, I would suggest a spinner over a defogger, though.


Heh, I actually already got my Tyranitar by the time you posted this. He's got Sassy (+SpDef, - Speed), trained up in HP and Attack.
I'm testing him out as we speak. Stealth Rock, Dragon Tail, and Pursuit seems like an awesome winning combo. Iron Head for coverage. Going to give him Leftovers.

I don't expect to be able to keep him in long enough to refresh the sandstorm without making him a mega. In my tourny-group, enough people use Tyrannitar or Mega-Aggron that I'm guessing people are going to have plans to kill tanks.

Probably going to forget worrying about getting rid of the weather effects. My worry was with Talonflame, since I plan to have him be a later-game glass-cannon to deal with anything proving to be pesky.

EDIT: Crap. I traded away my Tyrannitarite. Anyone got some they'd be willing to part with?

EDIT2:
Current team:
Tanking Tyranitar w/ Stealth Rock
Protean Greninja
Kamikaze Talonflame
Metagross... with... well, what the heck should I put on a Metagross?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:31 pm


First, I don't like Metagross this gen. His speed is an issue since he now has 4 weaknesses instead of the usual 2. But if you're determined, you could try an Agility set with Meteor Mash, Earthquake, and your choice of an elemental punch. (Ice Punch imo) Or you could run a set like this.

Metagross@ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash / Bullet Punch
Earthquake
Ice Punch / Bullet Punch

The idea is simple. Be bulky, shrug off resisted attacks, set up rocks, smack stuff HARD when you get the opportunity. Was better last gen as I mentioned above, but you could try it if you're determined. I like this set better, but it's your decision.

If you're running Talonflame and are in need of some walls I'd recommend a Spinner/Defogger.

I think Mandibuzz is one of the most reliable field clearers. Doesn't get blocked by the obvious Ghost switch-in when trying to use Rapid Spin.

You can choose between physically or specially defensive, either works really. I think Physical is the better choice overall though.

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Overcoat Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def

- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic
- Foul Play

Defog and Roost are the obvious choices. Toxic lets you threaten your switch-ins. Most things don't like being Badly Poisoned when that damage racks up and you can Roost to stall them out. Foul Play is your last choice, gets around Taunt users, by using your opponent's Attack stat instead of Mandibuzz's at 95 Base Power with STAB. I've seen this guy everywhere and he does wonders. Overcoat is neat too, as it blocks Powder moves and weather damage. Chances are it will help you from time to time. Shuts down Smeargle leads (blocks Spore, Defog away hazards). Unfortunately all you can do is Foul Play it to break the Sash, dunno what the damage on that would be, probably not much.


As for a Special Wall, I was against it at first but Sylveon does wonders for me.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Cute Charm/Pixilate*
Calm 252 HP / 252 Sp. D / 4 Sp. Atk

Moonblast / Hyper Voice*
Toxic
Wish
Protect

*Note* Pixilate and Hyper Voice is the superior choice here, as Pixilate boosts Hyper Voice's power by 30%, then changes it to Fairy typing where you stack up with STAB, giving it a whopping 175.5 BP compared to Moonblast's 142.5 BP (After STAB) The only problem is that it can be very difficult to get this Pokemon, as you must get the Hidden Ability in a Gen 5 Game, use the move tutor there to get Hyper Voice, then transfer it over and evolve it. If you can't do that, Cute Charm and Moonblast is your substitution.

Now, this set may seem mediocre at first, but Fairy is only resisted by Fire, Steel, and Poison types. It should be easy to let your teammates handle these, but be careful because Sylveon has no options to handle Poison or Steel types.

Basically the set walls Special Attacks hard. Poison something with Toxic or slam a weakened mon with Hyper Voice (or Moonblast). Wish + Protect is good with Toxic because you can easily rack up turns and also pass Wish support to your allies. In a pinch, you can pass a Wish to Talonflame to heal of that 50% SR damage and put him back at full. (Half of Sylveon's HP is passed with Wish, so pokemon like Talonflame will receive more than half of their own max HP)

Quick note, since multiple Leftovers are hard to obtain, you can switch it up with a Sitrus or Lum Berry too. That Lead Metagross set is a prime candidate for Lum Berry (it's arguably better tbh), and you can choose whether Mandibuzz of Sylveon gets the Sitrus Berry. Leftovers is more consistent but Sitrus Berry can turn your opponent's 2HKO into a 3HKO in some instances. Hard to say which deserves it. If I HAD to pick (which I don't, because I have 2 Leftovers), I'd say give Sylveon the Leftovers. But only because it has Protect.


Also, I just wanna mention that Mandibuzz is weak to Electric, Ice, and Rock, Sylveon is weak to none of these, as Mandibuzz is not weak to any of Sylveon's weaknesses (Poison or Steel). An important factor when planning your walls. The only problem here is that neither actually have a reliable option to deal with Steels, so you could mix it up if that ever became problematic. Usually your sweepers can deal with them though, like Talonflame, who hits Steel types Super Effectively.

One last thing, you don't have to use these two, it's just a suggestion with my seal of approval.

Archolite
Crew

Tipsy Loiterer

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