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4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

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Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

Tags: 4:12 Guild, Discipleship, Unashamed, Jesus Christ, Christianity 

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Can I rant about Duck Dynasty for a second?

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Ophelias Bathwater
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:25 am


For those of you not living in the US, Duck Dynasty is an insanely popular television show that follows around some guys that own a duck hunting equipment company. I've been told it's adorable and hilarious and quaint but I wouldn't personally know. I don't have cable and I don't watch reality TV anyway.

Anyway, there's a guy on the show called Phil Robertson, and he made some homophobic comments in one of the episodes that's got everyone picking a side. I read a transcript of the interview and really, to me, he just sounded like a hillbilly old man (which he is) who's probably never even heard the word QUILTBAG, let alone consciously met someone who doesn't fit the identity of "straight".

Some friends from my former church and I are (really trying) to have a civil conversation over Facebook about it, and I'm....failing at it. I'm a little too amped about it to have a civil conversation, and I acted in....probably not a very Christ-like way to get her to feel bad about it.

The problem I have with it isn't really the guy.... yeah a person is entitled to their opinion whether it's ugly or not. But when people take something someone said on A TELEVISION SHOW so personally and so seriously and start posting and sharing incendiary things on a public forum about who's right and who's wrong, I have a hard time corralling my anger. Especially when I have a horse in this race. My little brother just came out to me a month ago and I really want to prove to him that there are compassionate Christian people who won't shun or judge or try to change him because of the way God created him.

It is Christmas and I wish we could just put all of our differences behind us so we can celebrate the birth of Jesus with innocence and wonder and a spirit of goodwill towards everyone. stressed THAT'S OFFICIALLY ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:10 pm


...yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. How would a duck hunting show be adorable? I mean, ducks are often adorable, which is exactly why hunting them isn't adorable (don't get me wrong, I'll eat them without a second thought, I'm just a p***y, like most people, and would prefer not to slaughter my own meat).

And wtf is a quiltbag? I don't even know what that is.

Honestly, I find this modern obsession with political correctness pretty tiresome. I guess I feel that if you're truly not a judgmental or discriminatory type of person, then you really shouldn't feel like you're out to prove anything. In my experience, most people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder about how tolerant and accepting they are are often over-compensating for some deep-seated prejudice that they feel guilty about.

I guess it's better that they over-compensate in the direction of tolerance rather than giving in to that deep-seated prejudice, but the "I don't tolerate intolerance!" oxymoron gets old really fast.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:46 pm


SinfulGuillotine
And wtf is a quiltbag? I don't even know what that is.


It's another term for LGBTQIA. It seems to be pretty rare at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if this one guy hadn't heard it. I wouldn't be surprised if queer people hadn't heard it.

I don't even know what the U stands for sweatdrop Unsure, maybe?

He said this stuff in GQ. Wtf is he doing in GQ?! A gentleman he is not. You want to be a gentleman and have a beard like that you have to be a member of some prestigious London Clubs or something.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:49 am


Sanguina Cruenta
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And wtf is a quiltbag? I don't even know what that is.


It's another term for LGBTQIA. It seems to be pretty rare at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if this one guy hadn't heard it. I wouldn't be surprised if queer people hadn't heard it.

I don't even know what the U stands for sweatdrop Unsure, maybe?

He said this stuff in GQ. Wtf is he doing in GQ?! A gentleman he is not. You want to be a gentleman and have a beard like that you have to be a member of some prestigious London Clubs or something.
GQ must have really dropped the ball on that one. Either that or their standards have just been slipping steadily since I stopped making it a point to read GQ on a regular basis.

And the queer community has gotten pretty out of control with regards to their acronyms. Remember when it just used to be LGBT? Now it's like LGBTQURTSUVWYXTUV or something. (In case you're wondering, yes, I made most of that up.)

What ever happened to "queer" as just sort of an all-purpose word for anyone who is not 100% heterosexual and cisgendered? I thought that was fantastic. It's simple, it's vague enough that pretty much anyone who wants to use it can use it...WHY ARE WE REPLACING "QUEER"???

I refuse to have any part in this "quiltbag" nonsense.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:37 pm


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Sanguina Cruenta
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And wtf is a quiltbag? I don't even know what that is.


It's another term for LGBTQIA. It seems to be pretty rare at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if this one guy hadn't heard it. I wouldn't be surprised if queer people hadn't heard it.

I don't even know what the U stands for sweatdrop Unsure, maybe?

He said this stuff in GQ. Wtf is he doing in GQ?! A gentleman he is not. You want to be a gentleman and have a beard like that you have to be a member of some prestigious London Clubs or something.
GQ must have really dropped the ball on that one. Either that or their standards have just been slipping steadily since I stopped making it a point to read GQ on a regular basis.

And the queer community has gotten pretty out of control with regards to their acronyms. Remember when it just used to be LGBT? Now it's like LGBTQURTSUVWYXTUV or something. (In case you're wondering, yes, I made most of that up.)

What ever happened to "queer" as just sort of an all-purpose word for anyone who is not 100% heterosexual and cisgendered? I thought that was fantastic. It's simple, it's vague enough that pretty much anyone who wants to use it can use it...WHY ARE WE REPLACING "QUEER"???

I refuse to have any part in this "quiltbag" nonsense.


Queer started as an insult and it's still used that way. You can't blame people if they want to distance themselves from a term that has been used to hurt them on a personal level. A lot of people refer to themselves as "queer" but enough don't that using it as the primary catch-all isn't the done thing quite yet.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:23 pm


I know the origin of the word "queer," but I don't think I've encountered anyone within the past decade at least who still finds it to be genuinely offensive.

Fact is, things like sexual orientation and gender identity come in so many flavours that it's damn-near impossible to come up with precise terminology for everything, and as such, these acronyms have gotten more and more ridiculous. It's also a driving force behind "queer" being "taken back" and adopted as an umbrella term to describe anyone who is not 100% heterosexual and 100% cisgendered.

And the original meaning of "queer," long before it was applied primarily to homosexuals, really isn't inherently negative. It just means odd, eccentric, departing from the norm, and given that the majority of the population does indeed identify as heterosexual and cisgendered, I think "queer" is actually a fairly accurate word to describe people who are in the minority in regards to sexual orientation and gender identity.

Granted, I don't care all that much if some people prefer to identify with a letter in an acronym that seems to grow longer by the day. I just think it'd be nice if folks could just be who they are without feeling a burning desire to slap a label on themselves. But I also recognise the human tendency towards putting things in boxes with a pretty bow on top. I take no real issue with it. I just think it tends to make things more complicated than they really are at best, and function to separate and divide people at worst.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:28 am


I'm not seeing anything homophobic about Phil's statement. He certainly isn't afraid of homosexuals, and paraphrasing Scripture surely isn't something to be offended over (especially by confessing Christians).

My problem over the whole thing is this:

He got in trouble for answering a question in a Scripturaly sound manner, in an interview for a magazines January 2014 issue. I call set-up on this, since A&E has being doing their best to silence their religious talk on the show (that is, incidentally, as much about the family as their duck call business). This is just another example of how atheists and non-Christians in general are demanding Christians divest themselves of their faith when they enter the public arena, which is complete non-sense. Do atheists stop being atheists in the public arena? How about Buddhists? I don't hear anyone telling the Dahli Llama that he has to check his beliefs at the door when leaving his temple.

My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane. I wish more Christians would be as uncompromising on the gospel as this family so far has shown themselves. As an aside to all of this, Phil didn't bash anyone. He talked about homosexuality in the context of behavior, and stating the truth in putting it equal with every other sin God is against. He's on record as also saying he doesn't hate anyone. People really need to get a grip and quit implicitly trusting the liberal media.

That being said, if you choose to endorse a lifestyle that goes against God's will, teaching, and design, go for it. Just remember who you claim to follow.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:56 am


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I'm not seeing anything homophobic about Phil's statement. He certainly isn't afraid of homosexuals, and paraphrasing Scripture surely isn't something to be offended over (especially by confessing Christians).

My problem over the whole thing is this:

He got in trouble for answering a question in a Scripturaly sound manner, in an interview for a magazines January 2014 issue. I call set-up on this, since A&E has being doing their best to silence their religious talk on the show (that is, incidentally, as much about the family as their duck call business). This is just another example of how atheists and non-Christians in general are demanding Christians divest themselves of their faith when they enter the public arena, which is complete non-sense. Do atheists stop being atheists in the public arena? How about Buddhists? I don't hear anyone telling the Dahli Llama that he has to check his beliefs at the door when leaving his temple.

My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane. I wish more Christians would be as uncompromising on the gospel as this family so far has shown themselves. As an aside to all of this, Phil didn't bash anyone. He talked about homosexuality in the context of behavior, and stating the truth in putting it equal with every other sin God is against. He's on record as also saying he doesn't hate anyone. People really need to get a grip and quit implicitly trusting the liberal media.

That being said, if you choose to endorse a lifestyle that goes against God's will, teaching, and design, go for it. Just remember who you claim to follow.
Firstly, I haven't seen anyone on this thread calling anyone a homophobe. Miss Ophelia described some comments this man made as homophobic, but she didn't call him a homophobe.

Secondly, definitions of words change over time. Words like "homophobe" or "homophobic" have evolved to not only refer to people with an actual phobia of homosexuals, but also people (and their actions) with a strong aversion to homosexuals and homosexuality. And this isn't just within the context of common usage. Most current dictionaries define "homophobia" as a fear of or aversion to homosexuals.

Since I have no idea what this television show is and haven't actually read the interview in question, however, I can't really comment on the nature of this man's comments.

Anyone have a link?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:15 am


PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:57 am


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My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane.
Putting aside the semantics of the "homophobe" business, are Christians not allowed to disagree with anything another Christian says? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

This man has every right to speak his mind on...well, on anything, but others have just as much of a right to openly disagree with him. The fact that both are self-professed Christians isn't really relevant. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:42 pm


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My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane.
Putting aside the semantics of the "homophobe" business, are Christians not allowed to disagree with anything another Christian says? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

This man has every right to speak his mind on...well, on anything, but others have just as much of a right to openly disagree with him. The fact that both are self-professed Christians isn't really relevant. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.


Indeed, people are allowed to have a difference of opinion. Fortunately Scripture isn't opinion but fact and not up for debate. It is what it is.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:46 pm


SinfulGuillotine
Firstly, I haven't seen anyone on this thread calling anyone a homophobe. Miss Ophelia described some comments this man made as homophobic, but she didn't call him a homophobe.

Secondly, definitions of words change over time. Words like "homophobe" or "homophobic" have evolved to not only refer to people with an actual phobia of homosexuals, but also people (and their actions) with a strong aversion to homosexuals and homosexuality. And this isn't just within the context of common usage. Most current dictionaries define "homophobia" as a fear of or aversion to homosexuals.

Since I have no idea what this television show is and haven't actually read the interview in question, however, I can't really comment on the nature of this man's comments.

Anyone have a link?


I understand that definitions change over time (look at 'gay' which used to just mean 'lighthearted or happy'), but I seriously doubt he has an aversion to anyone. Just because he disagrees with their lifestyle choices doesn't mean he has an aversion to anyone.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:13 am


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My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane.
Putting aside the semantics of the "homophobe" business, are Christians not allowed to disagree with anything another Christian says? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

This man has every right to speak his mind on...well, on anything, but others have just as much of a right to openly disagree with him. The fact that both are self-professed Christians isn't really relevant. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.


Indeed, people are allowed to have a difference of opinion. Fortunately Scripture isn't opinion but fact and not up for debate. It is what it is.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Well, I don't have the time, energy, or inclination so crack open the sola scriptura can of worms.

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that the road this thread is starting to go down is absolutely NOT one that Ophelia had any intention of inciting, so out of love and respect for her, I'm going to wrap up what I have to say on the matter as follows:

While I am a bit of a poster child against all kinds of censorship and hold few (secular) things as sacred as I do freedom of expression, I think that free expression should also be tempered with some amount of sensitivity and empathy, taking into account the audience that your television show/film motion picture/novel/whatever is likely to reach. And if people get riled up by something you've said, well, then at least take a moment to appreciate the beauty of free expression in action.

Perhaps most importantly of all, don't treat celebrities like demi-gods. Don't look to them for moral, theological, or spiritual guidance. Don't take them too seriously. Look to them for their primary purpose: entertainment.

I think I will go ahead and take a look-see at that link someone posted, but unless it reveals something totally unexpected, this post here pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Seeing as how Miss Ophelia put this in the chatterbox forum and not the main srs bsns discussion forum, I have a feeling that she had no intention of sparking any meaningful debate. I'm not saying that a meaningful debate on this topic is not allowed, but let's just make some effort to keep things in perspective, yes?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:51 pm


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My reason for responding here is that someone in a Christian guild is calling another Christian (and an ordained minister to boot) a homophobe for politely stating his standing with God. That's just insane.
Putting aside the semantics of the "homophobe" business, are Christians not allowed to disagree with anything another Christian says? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

This man has every right to speak his mind on...well, on anything, but others have just as much of a right to openly disagree with him. The fact that both are self-professed Christians isn't really relevant. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.


Indeed, people are allowed to have a difference of opinion. Fortunately Scripture isn't opinion but fact and not up for debate. It is what it is.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Well, I don't have the time, energy, or inclination so crack open the sola scriptura can of worms.


Fair enough.

Quote:
Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that the road this thread is starting to go down is absolutely NOT one that Ophelia had any intention of inciting, so out of love and respect for her, I'm going to wrap up what I have to say on the matter as follows:

While I am a bit of a poster child against all kinds of censorship and hold few (secular) things as sacred as I do freedom of expression, I think that free expression should also be tempered with some amount of sensitivity and empathy, taking into account the audience that your television show/film motion picture/novel/whatever is likely to reach. And if people get riled up by something you've said, well, then at least take a moment to appreciate the beauty of free expression in action.


I'm sure Phil Robertson has. He's not said one word against A&E for their actions. He's said repeatedly the show and the money aren't important to him. I also have no issue of people wanting to disagree. You all can believe whatever you want, doesn't make you - or me - any more or less right.

Quote:
Perhaps most importantly of all, don't treat celebrities like demi-gods. Don't look to them for moral, theological, or spiritual guidance. Don't take them too seriously. Look to them for their primary purpose: entertainment.


Aside from the fact Phil (and Willie, from what I understand) is a regular preacher from before the show ever became famous, right?

Quote:
I think I will go ahead and take a look-see at that link someone posted, but unless it reveals something totally unexpected, this post here pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Seeing as how Miss Ophelia put this in the chatterbox forum and not the main srs bsns discussion forum, I have a feeling that she had no intention of sparking any meaningful debate. I'm not saying that a meaningful debate on this topic is not allowed, but let's just make some effort to keep things in perspective, yes?


Perspective is definitely something that's good to have.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:11 pm


Adalido Riftscribe, just to hopefully clear up any misunderstanding, none of what I've said here was directed specifically at you as an individual, so I hope you didn't take any of it as a personal attack. If it came across that way, I apologise.

I also have no idea who any of these people are, so many of my comments are not even directed towards them, or even this specific situation.

To hopefully clear up any confusion (this is all just my personal opinion in general, and does not relate specifically to anyone or any single situation):

In general, I find it pretty ridiculous how many people get their knickers in a knot over what somebody says on television. It seems like every week, in at least some country, there's some heavily press-covered scandal about so-and-so saying such-and-such on this channel in that interview. I mean, I whole-heartedly support everyone's right to speak their mind, and I support everyone else's right to disagree with anything anyone says, but these petty mud-slinging media circuses are just...stupid. Surely everyone who gets sucked into them has better ways they could be spending their time.
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