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Abortion and dominance

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Broorel

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:25 pm


I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it would be good to discuss the issue from a prolife/prochoice standpoint.

The past few days have been a bit odd for me. I've been unsettled about life and issues in a way that is new for me. It's hard to express in words exactly what I've experienced but I think it boils down to a confusion and hopelessness for humanity.

I've been reading more pro-choice articles than is probably good for my soul. I read them looking for a glimmer of something to allow me to see some good in their movement. I looked for empowerment, I looked for justice, and I even looked for some moral good. I looked. What I found was a numb assortment of selfish wants and mortal desires. I found women broken by the establishment of abortion. Women who rely on abortion as a way to put their bodies and selves back into submission. It is about control. But it goes much further than the control over self it is so often portrayed. I found women who are fighting for a cause not because of the moral implications of killing their offspring, but because they are terrified of a world where they would be unable to control their own destinies by means of asserting ultimate control over the destinies of their children.

Control is what it comes down to. After countless years of subservience, women have decided to assert their dominance by enslaving a new group. A weaker group. Because of the injustices of the past, women are inflicting their own injustices for the future. It is quite reminiscent of a certain time, in a certain place, where another group of downtrodden rose to fight not their oppressors, but those who were weak and could be easily overthrown.

Abortion is cowardly. Instead of overthrowing the patriarchal society and reaching for a potential inclusive of maternity, women have pushed aside their very femininity for mans ideology of unrepentant strength. We have become who we hated. We have become heartless monsters trampling anyone who stands in way of our superficial success.

Why has it become acceptable for the oppressed to continue the chain of violence and brut order? Why have we allowed ourselves to sink to the level of the slave owner? Why are we destroying life, not in order for us to live, but in order for us to flourish in the hideous world we refuse to abolish.

This is not acceptable. If our answer to fascism is the domination of the weak, how are we any better than our oppressors? I do not believe that people begin atrocities with the intention to force others into the subjection that they have suffered. Or maybe they do. Maybe this is some sort of revenge via transference...If we can't kill the despot, kill the children.


We have become the monster.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:09 am


((been away for a while so hello and I hope I can get back into the swing of things...))

An interesting standpoint. I've seen people argue that abortion is just another way for men to control women before. For example, a woman may feel forced into getting an abortion if she finds herself pregnant and her job at risk.

You make an eloquent argument. But...

Broorel
I found women broken by the establishment of abortion.


I'm assuming here that you mean broken by a badly handled abortion. Some women go through abortion truley as a final resort (for a myriad of reasons), and the guilt afterwards can be too much. These women would be better off finding another way to cope with the pregnancy, for example pro-lifers often talk about crisis centres.

This is not what happens to the majority though. Keep that in mind. Abortion can be the mental saviour of many women.

Broorel
Women who rely on abortion as a way to put their bodies and selves back into submission.
Quote:


Why do you say this? I know why others have said this (and I know it is not the main point of your post), and I can see thier reasoning. Some women are forced into abortions by family, society, husbands, boyfriends. These women are let down by a service that is there to help them. If a woman is not actually ready and willing then she should be given an abortion.

Quote:

Abortion is cowardly. Instead of overthrowing the patriarchal society and reaching for a potential inclusive of maternity, women have pushed aside their very femininity for mans ideology of unrepentant strength.


I'm afraid I cannot agree with this at all. Being able to be a mother does not make someone more feminine. Just as being infertile, having a masectomy or a hystorectomy does not make you any less feminine.

I've been told I may not ever be able to carry a pregnancy to term. Do I feel any less womanly? No, I do not.

Quote:
We have become who we hated. We have become heartless monsters trampling anyone who stands in way of our superficial success.


Generalising a little here. Do you think that women who apply for abortion are all doing it simply because they are on the fast track to company chair and a pregnancy would get in the way of that?

Quote:
Maybe this is some sort of revenge via transference...If we can't kill the despot, kill the children.


I'm afraid you have summed up the entire inadequacy of your arguments with your penultimate statement. No one is killing children.

You can argue untill you are blue in the face that an embryo/fetus is a child, but you cannot get passed the science. To be a child first it must be born, alive. To be considered sentient first it must have a functionable brain. Even if the jury is still out on when EXACTLY this occurs, general concensus says some point beyond 20 weeks, when the vast majority of abortions occur only for emergency medical reasons, or if the birth would result in a still-born.

I know that many Pro-Lifers would argue that "its not a human being" argument was used by slave-owners etc... through history. However, perfectly sound scientific research backs up the Pro-Choice movement.

This was just a quick cursory answer. I hope I haven't come off as an arrogant moron (as I do that when I'm in a rush sometimes) I have to go now, hopefully I'll have time at some point to come back and discuss this a little deeper.

Shard Aerliss


Trite~Elegy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:17 pm


[ Message temporarily off-line ]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:20 pm


[ Message temporarily off-line ]

Diadema


Trite~Elegy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:17 pm


Any religious fanatics' could threaten physical punishment.
but it's more common around those who believe in 'God'
I.E. Islam, Catholics (DO not get me wrong I know that not all people are like what I said), Shiks, some jews, and even some hindus are quite strict when it comes to pregnancy.

at the end I ment to basically say " that when we accomplish all of thease things, the need for elective abortion will lessen'
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:53 am


Diadema

I fail to see why men's actions in the past should affect a woman's decision now.


It's along the same lines as the way many ethnic minorities act today. They still believe they are being persecuted, or might be persecuted and retaliate in kind. It's a sort of backlash like the whole "positive discrimination" garbbage. Because a group were persecuted in the past they have to be helped and honoured more today than any other group.

It syhouldn't happen, but it does.

Shard Aerliss

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The Abortion Debate Guild

 
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