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4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

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Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:22 am


Thread has to deal with potty language, if you need to say a word to get your point across that is fine, just don't go crazy with it and try to keep it somewhat clean. This is one of those rare times where I will allow it. ~ Subby


I'm one of those people who doesn't really believe in "bad words." I don't find any words inherently offensive or vulgar in and of themselves. It's all about the context of those words. You can say a sentence full of "bad words" that, at least to people who aren't offended by simply the words themselves, is not the slightest bit offensive. And on the flip side, you can say a sentence that is very offensive without using any language that is generally considered "bad" or "vulgar." It's all about how you choose to use the words you use.

Do you generally try to avoid words that are considered "bad words" or "swear words"? Why or why not? Do you find other people using those words to be especially offensive, even if the meaning of what they're saying is obviously not offensive? Are their any words that you think should simply be banned from public usage?

And as always, feel free to discuss anything else relating to the topic.
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:43 am


I TRY not to swear much lol. Sometimes that's difficult for me. ninja I swear around friends, but I try to hold my tongue around people I deeply respect (my mom, my bosses, etc)

I see it this way: using a made-up swear word is basically the same thing as swearing. Everybody knows what you really mean and how you really feel.

Not that technicalities exempt us from what's written in the Bible, but we can't pretend that God can't hear us when we're swearing in our heads.

I am offended by some words. Epithets directed at women, people of color or queer folks in particular greatly diminish my opinion of the person who says them. Being mindful of that, I realize some of the words I say could do that sort of damage to others.

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:47 pm


Swearing or cussing is something that doesn't bother me, I don't believe in "bad words" sure kids don't need to be using adult language, to me that shows bad parenting but that is a different discussion.

I think cussing is only bad if your calling someone a derogatory term out of anger or if you use the Lords name in vain. However stubbing your toe and saying "dammnit" meh big deal. I don't mind cussing and potty mouthing but it gets annoying when people use a curse word after every other word. Sounds immature to me plus it makes a person look trashy.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but the Bible only says don't use the Lords name in vain, and don't let anger control you. It says absolutely nothing about saying the other naughty words, and it says nothing about using them in jokes or anything like that. If it's not in the Bible then well it's not really a sin then. It's only a sin if you're calling someone a bad word out of anger.
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:44 pm


Thanks for making an exception, Subby. I actually meant to ask about it but then I had to go do something and get offline before I had a chance.

I'm not easily offended as a general rule, but when I am offended, it's generally only by statements that are blatantly offensive, regardless of what sort of language is used to express them.

For example, I am not inherently offended by the word "f**" or "f*****t," despite the fact that I am a homosexual male and those words are indeed considered to be generally derogatory words to describe homosexual men. If I call someone who cuts me off when I'm driving a f*****t, I'm obviously not saying that he is a gay man who deserves to be burned at the stake. The same goes for if I call my computer a f*****t, or my television, or my Wii. I'm equally unoffended by people using the word "gay" to describe something that is annoying or bad. And I'm not even offended if someone calls me a f*****t. My partner calls me a f*****t quite frequently, and I him. Words like "f**" and "b***h" are practically terms of endearment within my social circle.

The way I see most derogatory words is that if we all stop getting our knickers in a knot about them, those words lose their power. Then even if and when somebody does direct one of those words at you in an intentionally inflammatory fashion, it really loses its sting. "Slut" is another one that if you simply make the choice to not give that word the power to hurt you, it just becomes another word.

The way the GLBT community "took back" the word "queer" is how I feel all derogatory words should be treated. People can only hurt your feelings with those kinds of words if you continue giving those words the power to be hurtful.

If someone calls me a queer junkie slut f*****t whore, I ignore the derogatory meaning of those words and admit that yes, by the definition of those words, that is not a completely inaccurate way to describe me. I am homosexual, I'm a recovering heroin addict, and in the past I have been quite promiscuous, sometimes even in exchange for goods (okay, almost always drugs). And if I simply stand up and own those parts of myself, I take away people's power to hurt me with those kinds of words.

In casual conversation, I tend to "cuss" quite a lot. I can censor myself, obviously, and do at times when such language is not appropriate, either because it's unprofessional (which I'll admit it is) and I'm in a work setting, or when I'm around people that are either especially young or who I just know won't appreciate it (and placating them with internal self-censorship is easier, and more polite, than telling them that they are wrong to feel the way they feel about the issue).

When I won't censor myself are situations like being out in public with friends. I'm not going to "watch my language" while talking to my friends while walking down the street just on the off chance that someone who overhears me gets offended. Don't like what I'm saying? Then stop eavesdropping.

And I feel this is somewhat related, but when talking about sex or things involving genitals, I tend to use pretty clinical language, which for some reason some people find vulgar or inappropriate, but I find avoiding the real words for things like "p***s" or "v****a" or even "sex" to be pretty immature. I realise that when you're ten, those words are hilarious, but that's a phase you're supposed to grow out of. And using "pet names" or whatever you want to call it for genitalia implies that there is something inherently shameful about those parts of our bodies, and there isn't. You should be no more ashamed of your p***s or your v****a than you should be of...I don't know, your elbow. It's all your body, and it's all God's design, so what is there to be ashamed of?

And I realise that most men have pet names for their penises and I'm sure plenty of women have pet names for their vaginas; that's not really what I'm talking about. That's fine. It's when adults actively avoid using the real words for those body parts and instead insist on using words like "wee-wee" or "down-there parts" that I find kind of ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:35 pm


Generally "bad words" don't bother me. If someone were to say f--- or b---- ect. in a conversation or in passing I really don't care. You can say whatever you want to say. The only exception being the Lord's name in vain or when people are purposely using them to hurt someone.
But it really bothers me when people talk that way to or in front of children.

Personally I try not to use bad language because it's crude and makes a person sound unintelligent.
If you can't go three words without adding another cuss word it just makes it look like you aren't overly intelligent. (No offense to anyone)
And also because I don't think it's pleasing to the Lord. While I'm definitely not sinless and I don't know if swearing is a sin I still try not to as much as possible.
But I still struggle with that.

James 1:26 ESV - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Matthew 12:26-27 ESV - "I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Colossians 3:8 ESV - But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:18 pm


I used to be a potty mouth growing up, but as I started learning the meaning of words I stopped using them.
I can proudly say I don't need any bad words/vulgarity to demean or offend anyone.
Lol, j/k
but I could I if wanted to thought, and without uttering a single foul word so I see your point.
There are only two words that I occasionally say that are not really BAD words but they might seem like it, to some people.
I personally find it really hard to take anyone seriously who relies too much on on foul language.... or who curses a lot.
I find it that people usually use profanity when they can't express themselves any other way.
I can do fine without it.
I like learning new words and applying them. (English is not my first language). So replacing a proper word or statement with profanity is kind of a waste to me.


English is a beautiful language, why waste it? That's my motto.

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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:14 pm


Green_Fuu
I used to be a potty mouth growing up, but as I started learning the meaning of words I stopped using them.
I can proudly say I don't need any bad words/vulgarity to demean or offend anyone.
Lol, j/k
but I could I if wanted to thought, and without uttering a single foul word so I see your point.
There are only two words that I occasionally say that are not really BAD words but they might seem like it, to some people.
I personally find it really hard to take anyone seriously who relies too much on on foul language.... or who curses a lot.
I find it that people usually use profanity when they can't express themselves any other way.
I can do fine without it.
I like learning new words and applying them. (English is not my first language). So replacing a proper word or statement with profanity is kind of a waste to me.


English is a beautiful language, why waste it? That's my motto.
But if you refuse to say certain words, you're just purposefully limiting your vocabulary.

Now, if someone truly couldn't express themselves verbally without swearing, I would see the issue, but assuming you're not that stupid/uneducated, why intentionally neuter your vocabulary?

I mean, let's face it: is there any word more versatile than the F word? It can be almost any part of speech!

...except maybe an article. But still.
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:43 am


jesusgirl115

And also because I don't think it's pleasing to the Lord.

[...]

James 1:26 ESV - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Matthew 12:26-27 ESV - "I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Colossians 3:8 ESV - But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.


This.

Also, when we wear the name "Christian", our every action and word affects his reputation, not just our own anymore. If he doesn't think it's right, then to honestly reflect what he thinks, we should refrain from doing it. We're representing him on this planet. That's the goal. To say "I'm Christian" and then behave un-Christ-like/unbiblical/unholy is to take his name in vain too. There's really no need to cuss, even if a person stubs their toe, why can't they say "ow" or "ah"? I personally don't say anything at all when that happens so maybe it's easy for me to say, but it's possible. Oftentimes, whether it's at themselves, other people, or an inanimate object, people tend to cuss to express their anger (which is hate) or complain (which is ungratefulness)—both of which are considered to be sin. Personally, I don't like the tone of voice people adopt when using vulgar words. It's like they want to smack somebody, even when they're joking around. There's nothing loving, serviceable or edifying about their interaction, so why are they having said interaction? It's vain, empty, useless, and at times it escalates to mock-arrogance. None of which is Christ-like.


        Ephesians 4:29-32 (NIV)

        29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.


At the end of the day, it's about conforming to Christ, not the world; even though we won't be perfect everytime, perfection is the goal.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:58 am


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jesusgirl115

And also because I don't think it's pleasing to the Lord.

[...]

James 1:26 ESV - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Matthew 12:26-27 ESV - "I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Colossians 3:8 ESV - But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.


This.

Also, when we wear the name "Christian", our every action and word affects his reputation, not just our own anymore. If he doesn't think it's right, then to honestly reflect what he thinks, we should refrain from doing it. We're representing him on this planet. That's the goal. To say "I'm Christian" and then behave un-Christ-like/unbiblical/unholy is to take his name in vain too. There's really no need to cuss, even if a person stubs their toe, why can't they say "ow" or "ah"? I personally don't say anything at all when that happens so maybe it's easy for me to say, but it's possible. Oftentimes, whether it's at themselves, other people, or an inanimate object, people tend to cuss to express their anger (which is hate) or complain (which is ungratefulness)—both of which are considered to be sin. Personally, I don't like the tone of voice people adopt when using vulgar words. It's like they want to smack somebody, even when they're joking around. There's nothing loving, serviceable or edifying about their interaction, so why are they having said interaction? It's vain, empty, useless, and at times it escalates to mock-arrogance. None of which is Christ-like.


        Ephesians 4:29-32 (NIV)

        29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.


At the end of the day, it's about conforming to Christ, not the world; even though we won't be perfect everytime, perfection is the goal.
This really comes back to what I've been saying about context.

I think we can all agree that being mean and saying intentionally hurtful things to people just for the sake of being mean is not really okay.

But who decided that these words that are considered "bad words" were...well, bad? Was it God? No. It was society. It was "the world."

You can be hurtful and cruel without ever uttering a "bad word." And you can be kind and supportive while cursing like a sailor.

So I think what's far more important than whether or not you choose to utilise "bad words" in your day-to-day conversations is the context in which you use them.
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:05 am


Y'all found the verses before I did. Thanks! xp Ephesians 4:29 was the verse that came to mind.

I don't think omitting swear words from my vocabulary neuters it in any way. Yeah, it can add humor to a statement or hammer home a point, but it's not anything more than that. Just decoration. Racial or sexual slurs are another story.

I would argue that in some instances, swearing can physically hurt people. I had a roommate in college who claimed to be Christian, and would never use one of the "seven dirty words", but he (a straight white guy) would lay out words like "n*gger" and "f*****t" like no tomorrow, and he would do it so casually. It made my blood boil and he thought it was hilarious. On my 21st birthday, he ruined my party by shouting epithets through the house just to see what me (I'm a mix of a lot of things, passing for white) and the other folks of color at my party would do to him, and he's really lucky all we did was run him off. That night stands out as one of the most embarrassing events of my life.


So I do have a big problem with hateful speech in particular, even if I don't take too much issue with swearing in general (although I understand that swearing does cause some people to cringe in the same way). If it's something that's been adopted as a term of endearment by that particular group, only that group of people should say it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:56 am


Ophelias Bathwater
Y'all found the verses before I did. Thanks! xp Ephesians 4:29 was the verse that came to mind.

I don't think omitting swear words from my vocabulary neuters it in any way. Yeah, it can add humor to a statement or hammer home a point, but it's not anything more than that. Just decoration. Racial or sexual slurs are another story.

I would argue that in some instances, swearing can physically hurt people. I had a roommate in college who claimed to be Christian, and would never use one of the "seven dirty words", but he (a straight white guy) would lay out words like "n*gger" and "f*****t" like no tomorrow, and he would do it so casually. It made my blood boil and he thought it was hilarious. On my 21st birthday, he ruined my party by shouting epithets through the house just to see what me (I'm a mix of a lot of things, passing for white) and the other folks of color at my party would do to him, and he's really lucky all we did was run him off. That night stands out as one of the most embarrassing events of my life.


So I do have a big problem with hateful speech in particular, even if I don't take too much issue with swearing in general (although I understand that swearing does cause some people to cringe in the same way). If it's something that's been adopted as a term of endearment by that particular group, only that group of people should say it.
Your former roommate just sounds like a generally mean-spirited person.

Although it sounds like he mostly did it to get a rise out of you and others, and if you and others just didn't react to it, he probably wouldn't have continued doing it.

That being said, I realise that we can't always control what offends us, and...well, as I said, he sounds like he was just not a nice person.

And obviously I don't go around calling strangers "f**" or "b***h." I'm not an idiot, and I don't want to get beaten up.

Here's more or less the position I'm coming from: I've been called a lot of rude things by a lot of rude people, sometimes including derogatory language and sometimes not. And it used to really get to me. But eventually, I just grew a thicker skin, I guess, and I realised that those things were only hurtful if I gave them the power to hurt me. And so by treating all words as...well, just WORDS, and not giving words like "f*****t" or "slut" any more power than any other words, it's a lot harder for people to hurt me.

I also tend to use humour as a defence mechanism for...well, just about everything, and so by taking those ugly words and making them something I can joke about rather than something that makes me cry, I'm an overall happier person, and I don't give jerkwads like your roommate the satisfaction of hurting me with those words.
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:19 pm


SinfulGuillotine
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I used to be a potty mouth growing up, but as I started learning the meaning of words I stopped using them.
I can proudly say I don't need any bad words/vulgarity to demean or offend anyone.
Lol, j/k
but I could I if wanted to thought, and without uttering a single foul word so I see your point.
There are only two words that I occasionally say that are not really BAD words but they might seem like it, to some people.
I personally find it really hard to take anyone seriously who relies too much on on foul language.... or who curses a lot.
I find it that people usually use profanity when they can't express themselves any other way.
I can do fine without it.
I like learning new words and applying them. (English is not my first language). So replacing a proper word or statement with profanity is kind of a waste to me.


English is a beautiful language, why waste it? That's my motto.
But if you refuse to say certain words, you're just purposefully limiting your vocabulary.

Now, if someone truly couldn't express themselves verbally without swearing, I would see the issue, but assuming you're not that stupid/uneducated, why intentionally neuter your vocabulary?

I mean, let's face it: is there any word more versatile than the F word? It can be almost any part of speech!

...except maybe an article. But still.


It's not that I refuse.
Just that I don't need them.
Maybe it's just that I don't feel the need to use those words.
But to me it doesn't feel like restraining myself. I don't think of using them, don't think of thinking them...and I have no need for them.

Seriously, here's what I'm talking about:


"I really want some chili cheese fries. I'm at the threshold of throwing myself into a pool full of chili sauce and potato fries!"
Vs.

"I F--ing want some chili cheese fries. S--- I'm hungry!"



I don't see how taking away the swear words of the second one is limiting my vocabulary. O_o
I can do just fine with the first one and it expresses exactly what I want.
Even better than the second one. ^_~

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:32 pm


SinfulGuillotine
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jesusgirl115

And also because I don't think it's pleasing to the Lord.

[...]

James 1:26 ESV - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Matthew 12:26-27 ESV - "I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Colossians 3:8 ESV - But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.


This.

Also, when we wear the name "Christian", our every action and word affects his reputation, not just our own anymore. If he doesn't think it's right, then to honestly reflect what he thinks, we should refrain from doing it. We're representing him on this planet. That's the goal. To say "I'm Christian" and then behave un-Christ-like/unbiblical/unholy is to take his name in vain too. There's really no need to cuss, even if a person stubs their toe, why can't they say "ow" or "ah"? I personally don't say anything at all when that happens so maybe it's easy for me to say, but it's possible. Oftentimes, whether it's at themselves, other people, or an inanimate object, people tend to cuss to express their anger (which is hate) or complain (which is ungratefulness)—both of which are considered to be sin. Personally, I don't like the tone of voice people adopt when using vulgar words. It's like they want to smack somebody, even when they're joking around. There's nothing loving, serviceable or edifying about their interaction, so why are they having said interaction? It's vain, empty, useless, and at times it escalates to mock-arrogance. None of which is Christ-like.


        Ephesians 4:29-32 (NIV)

        29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.


At the end of the day, it's about conforming to Christ, not the world; even though we won't be perfect everytime, perfection is the goal.
This really comes back to what I've been saying about context.

I think we can all agree that being mean and saying intentionally hurtful things to people just for the sake of being mean is not really okay.

But who decided that these words that are considered "bad words" were...well, bad? Was it God? No. It was society. It was "the world."

You can be hurtful and cruel without ever uttering a "bad word." And you can be kind and supportive while cursing like a sailor.

So I think what's far more important than whether or not you choose to utilise "bad words" in your day-to-day conversations is the context in which you use them.


What I'm saying is: there is no appropriate context, IMO.

  • in front of unsaved friends? No, bad testimony of who God is (holy/set-apart/pure).

  • "alone" by yourself (technically, you're never alone because we're indwelled with the Holy Spirit), so no, it's not appropriate to speak that way, in front of God, or to God.

  • in front of fellow Christians? no, because our speech should be pure towards each other, we speak to one another with psalms, hymns, God's word, edifying things. There are no obscene phrases in the psalms.

    Quote:
    Ephesians 5:19 (NIV)

    19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,


When is it ever edifying to use vulgar words? I'm not talking about expressing niceness/kindness/buddy buddy-ness. Sometimes speaking edifying words can make a person feel sorrowful, even when spoken in a gentle/kind manner, which later leads to their repentance. They were still hurt despite the gentleness.

Quote:
2 Corinthians 7:8-11 (NIV)

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.


Yes, society is the one that taught me language in the first place, but they didn't invent the original languages (going by the bible's account, God confused the languages and he's the originator of them), but slurs/slang is not of him, though language is; certain words (those the world invents for derrogatory purposes) aren't necessary, and if they carry an offensive/condescending nuance, then why use it at all? even if some people can look past it? lack of vulgar words or not, I have no intention of condescending another individual. Nix the vulgar words and I'm one step closer to that.

But above all, my perspective on the matter is, if you wouldn't use it in normal conversation in front of a president (or whatever other authority figure), then much less in front of God in whose presence we're constantly in because of the Holy Spirit. Even if I weren't in front of God, I would feel hypocritical to act one way in front of friends, one way in front of strangers, another way when I'm alone, and another way when I'm with Him: is this my nature or not? why am I wearing a mask in front of people? That's hypocrisy. I am who I am in front of everyone, no concealing, because the new nature God is creating in me is righteous, not shameful. If I recognize that a particular word is offensive to some, and I haven't been commanded by God to speak it (so, non-biblical), then the word is officially offensive, and I don't want to use it at all. It's impure, like offering a blemished sacrifice to God; it's tainted by a nuance and common use. My new nature includes purifying my communication (verbal, nonverbal, expressions, sounds) whose main intent is to condescend others, express anger / dissatisfaction with life.

Enj, you're making me get wordy, lol.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:01 am


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I'm not offended by cussing. Moderation is important because they way people view them effect how they're used. For example when I hear ******** at least twice in every sentence I tend to think that person as a 14-year-old trying sound cool to his friends. And when I hear someone using words below their age group it's just as bad. I roll my eyes at adults who use words like caca or poo poo. When I'm mad cussing makes me feel better. If I were to use PG rated words I'd feel like I was being more restricted than what originally made me mad. Thus it tones down my mood making the anger pass sooner. The only words I don't tolerate are the ones that refer to God and Jesus. Those offend me greatly especially when they're not censored on tv. And a phrase I don't usually use is "Go to Hell." because I feel like Hell shouldn't be referred to so lightly. Cartoon characters are cussing now. We're doomed to listen to it from most everyone's mouth. We have bigger things to be worried about.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:11 am


I try not to curse other people
I really don't mind if people curse me however
Bad words are only a sound coming from your mouth that only hurts people when its used in a particular context

It is not befitting for a believer to curse others.
- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
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