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 Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:45 pm
Often in Japanese 4-kanji words are usually metaphors. I've encountered just a tiny slice of these in books, where they are barely touched upon. I'd like to know more, because metaphors and sayings are parts of everyday speech for natives (we use them all the time in English!), so knowing them (and when to use them) would make our Japanese just that much more sharp to the native listener. 3nodding
Any sources for them, like a book I could buy somewhere? Or if you know some off the top of your head, do tell! I wish I had the book that had a little section on them so I could share. I did find 2 though, but again I'm not sure if they are metaphors or not.. hence this thread! xp
鏡花水月 (kyou ka sui getsu) "mirror reflected flower, water reflected moon"
落花流水 (rakka ryuu sui) "flowers fall into running water"
I'm not sure if these are true sayings or metaphors or just poetic words. I think they are interesting because if one looks up "kyou" and "raku" in kanji dictionaries, those come up as a whole entire word. The definitions were quite literal but still, I'd like to know for sure.
I also realize that a lot of these come from Chinese.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:02 pm
There ought to be dictionaries out there for both kotowaza (proverbs) and yojijukugo (4 character, usually chinese based sayings/compounds).
The two you have mean something to this order:
鏡花水月 －意味： 目で見ることはできるが、手に取ることができないもののたとえ。 [An example of a thing that you can see with your eyes but are unable to take in hand]
落花流水 －意味： 男女が互いに思う気持ちがあれば、両方に同じ気持ちが生まれて、互いに思い合うことになるというたとえ。[An example of when there is a mutual feeling thought between a man and a woman, from both sides the same feeling is born, they become to think together]
I'm massacring the translations, but the Japanese does a decent job of expressing the information. A yojijukugo dictionary ( 四字熟語辞典 ) helps a lot with this little expressions; a good one ought to have several examples of the usage, a definition and guidelines for its use.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:46 pm
Wow, do we have the same kanji dictionary!? The definition for kyoukasuigetsu was verbatim! eek lol....
Thanks for clearing up the second one, too. smile You're translations are great, don't be so humble! wink
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:22 pm
We might. The definition for kyoukasuigetsu is similar in the kojien that I have, but I doubled checked in my denshi jisho's yojijukugo dictionary as well. ^^;;;
I do like the imagery pulled together for the first of the mirrored flower and the moon in the water.
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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:24 pm
Off topic but ... AH I LOVE YOUR QUOTE! xd He is, god he is. That book was a snore.
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:27 pm
But they manner that he wrote the kana preface for the kokinshu shows off how much a douchebag the man really was. neutral "her poetry was less refined, a result of her sex" etc.
Makes one want to slap his ghost really hard.
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