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 Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 pm
PLEASE HELP ME EXPLAIN THESE MISINTERPERTATIONS OF THE BIBLE
1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:1 cool
4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)
5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an a** and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-2 cool
6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)
7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)
9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:1 cool
God says it's not just OK to own slaves, but it is also A-OK to beat them to death. As long as they take a couple days to die. That's royally ******** up, and it's found in Exodus 21:20-21. Also see Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, and 1 Timothy 6:1-2. Nowhere in the Bible is there any instruction that slavery is bad.
- God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's royally ******** up.
- More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's royally ******** up, and it's in the Bible.
- God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's royally ******** up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it.
- How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's royally messed up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
- Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
- Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" s**t.
- More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.
- Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.)
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:48 pm
Misinterpretations? Out of interest, where did you find this? The links here may be of some minor help to you.
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:02 pm
I knew the Bible was cruel
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:28 pm
I'm not going to provide a verse by verse explanation of every verse you posted at the beginning, unless you really want me to. In that case, let me know and we'll walk through it. Out of curiosity, which translation did you use? Because I am not very familiar with the particular way they treated the text. Quote: - God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's royally ******** up. Possibly sex slaves, but more probably regular slaves. The Hebrews had been doing that for years and years. Most likely, these girls would have been given as wives to male slaves/servants that the Hebrews would have had after a few years of conquest. God had strict rules against them marrying or being sexually together with a woman of another country. And there was word of complaint. After all, remember that the original command was for every single living person to be put to death. Disobedience was punished by a plague. Every single person would have died if not for the whole snake on a stick thing. Moses could have ordered the death of the virgins, as was the original order, but he spared their lives. The word they used in v41 for tribute is mekes, which means "assessment." If they were put to death as human sacrifice, you would probably see the word korban, which is usually translated as "burnt offering." Quote: - More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's royally ******** up, and it's in the Bible. It was judgement for what the people did when the Israelites came from Egypt. God, especially through the Old Testament (OT) used generational punishments. This is one of them. Is it brutal? Sure. Even today, punishment for disobeying God is death, whether in this life or eternal death in the next. It isn't a new concept, and frankly, it's a just one. If they had repented and asked God for forgiveness, it would have been granted. There are many examples of God forgiving when he had decided otherwise originally. He even says that if he has passed judgement, he will forgive if the sinner turns away to righteousness. Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. Isaiah 55:7 No repentance? No forgiveness. Even little children in kindergarten know that by instinct. Quote: - God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's royally ******** up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it. They get the idea from the actual Hebrew or Aramaic words used. Each word has a certain understanding with it that cannot be easily translated into written text. For example, in Spanish, descuplame means "excuse me" or "forgive me." So does "permiso" and to a degree so does "lo siento" (though it is more "I'm sorry" than anything.) However, the first example would more mean that you are sorry that you farted, while permiso/lo siento is what you would use if making an apology. The word used for "boy" there ( na'ar) means either a literal boy from infancy to about the age of being eligible for military service, or it means someone who serves by providing sexual services. Again, it's pretty blunt and to the point, but the penalty for sin is death. Always has been, always has will be. Quote: - How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible. And still the people chose to disobey after such a display of his power. Amazing, isn't it? A whole country visited by the angel of death and yet not five seconds later the Hebrews were complaining all the way to Israel. Not that there wasn't a time when Pharaoh couldn't have been spared. Before the plagues when Moses and Aaron first appeared, he could have obeyed, but he didn't, and look at what it cost him. Why do we assume that you have until death to be obedient? Maybe some people only get so much time in your life before the God that is being despised gives up. Quote: - Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible. Jesus' "family values" are to love God to the point where, if something happens, you choose God even over your own family. You get that more from verse 37 to 39. He is indeed the Prince of Peace, but it isn't a utopia in which all mankind will sit by the fire and sing songs. It's a peace between man and God. I've seen it happen. It happened in my own family, but God's love is such a treasure that all that comes out of it is a sadness that the rest of the family doesn't cherish it. Quote: - Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" s**t. Sure. Because it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for one spouse to remain faithful when the other isn't. It happened to my mother. She married a man who doesn't love God, and now she too is disobedient. It was different before the marriage. Quote: - More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15. Modest women an example of misogyny? Not even close, but that isn't what you want to talk about. The marriage relationship is a reflection of what Jesus is to his Church. Jesus is the husband, and the church is the wife. The church does not have authority over Christ. This is the same Paul who taught that a husband should love his a wife as Christ loved the church, which was to the point of extremely painful execution. He also said that the husband's body is not his own, but the wife's. Quote: - Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.) Of course God hates. That's understandable from the scriptures. The whole problem of the Bible is that God loves mankind, but hates sin and cannot abide it in his presence. So what does a God who has cannot tolerate sin yet loves mankind do? He sends the Son, whom he loved, to die in our place. Whatever righteousness that we might claim is derivative of Christ's. We have none of our own, and most Christians will readily admit that. When God looks at us on Judgement Day, it won't be our sin that he will see. It'll be what Christ's blood has cleansed when we went into the waters of baptism. Khalid Ibn Walid I knew the Bible was cruel And the Qu'ran isn't? Have you read the Verse of the Sword?
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:15 pm
VK Fox There are many examples of God forgiving when he had decided otherwise originally. Question: how does god's omniscience factor into this sort of thing? Would he not have known he would change his mind in advance? Can a god who is omniscient change their mind? Did he not know best to start with? I am curious because I have come across a lot of intercessory prayers lately and I don't understand how they would work when the god prayed to is omniscient, and this seems along the same lines. To me this is just evidence against supposed omniscience, but I am wondering how Christians parse this sort of thing. Quote: Not that there wasn't a time when Pharaoh couldn't have been spared. Before the plagues when Moses and Aaron first appeared, he could have obeyed, but he didn't, and look at what it cost him. Why do we assume that you have until death to be obedient? Maybe some people only get so much time in your life before the God that is being despised gives up. Just seems like a d**k move. Pharaoh was all ready to let his friend go, but god still wanted to torture his people, so he messed with his free will? If god still wanted to mess with the Egyptians fine, but the Jews could have still gone free at this point. Why didn't he let them? Quote: Modest women an example of misogyny? Not even close, but that isn't what you want to talk about. My guess is the misogynistic part is where women aren't allowed to teach, and have to be quiet and submissive. And yeah that's kinda misogynistic by modern standards. It would have gone over fine at the time because the Romans were pretty misogynistic too. Quote: Of course God hates. That's understandable from the scriptures. The whole problem of the Bible is that God loves mankind, but hates sin and cannot abide it in his presence. The passage in question, according to OP, says god hates sinners not just sin. So he doesn't love ALL mankind, just the part of it which doesn't sin. Since everyone sins..... yeah. That's what OP is saying, and I don't think you really addressed it. You'd have to dismiss psalm 5:5.
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:11 am
This would take way too long to go over verse by verse. Did you read through the entire text of the area you got these to get the full context? For instance with taking his only son, that was a test. Women being subordinate to your husbands, also has the reverse. For husbands to love and respect their wives. A man that truly loves his wife, is also subordinate to what she has to say. A lot of these is taking just a few words, and excluding the context. I would suggest reading on to get a better understanding >.<
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thrashmetaljunkie Captain
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