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Valider [Spoilers]

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Jisen Meizuki
Crew

Stubborn Gifter

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:36 pm


To be honest, I would have given a proper title of what this topic is about. However, putting the proper title will spoil those who have reach Chapter 13 yet. sweatdrop So let's this be a little warning for those who check it.

In addition, just to let you know, I'm at Chapter 15 at the moment, so don't spoil much to me about Valider in the future chapters to me. However, the topic is related toward him.

So if you beat the chapter or still want to discuss despite spoiling, please put your discussion in spoilers tag so we can avoid spoiling it to those who haven't play or do not wish to be spoiled. Thank you.

Anyway, onto the topic:

When Chapter 13 introduces us that Valider is the Avatar's father (even though I've already knew that due to checking Fire Emblem wiki. >>; ), it makes me want to do a bit of research. What kind of research you ask?

Why, I compare Valider with Nergal since they have lots of things in common. Here is the list of how they are VERY similar:

    They're both Dark users.
    They both sired children who in the army against them.
    They both control the strong organization from behind. (Valider controlling the Pheglia country while Nergal with Black Fangs.)
    They both create their own army. (Risen for Valider, Morphs for Nergal)
    They try to use their children into their plot.


I would include Ashnard in for being the father; however, I don't see anything else to compare with Valider and Nergal. So seeing as how much similar these two Dark users have, there is one thing that makes them different.

.....

....

Valider KNOWS who his child is and doesn't give a crud about it while Nergal DOESN'T knows who his children is (it's hard to decide if he doesn't care or not. >>; )

Therefore, this makes Valider the most horrible father between the two. Valider knows his child was taken from him when he's trying to use the Avatar as the sacrifice for the Fell Dragon. And after years passes, he spotted his child during the assassination (Although I still can't figure out how does he know what his child will look like after so many years pass. I wasn't sure if the Avatar was taken as a child or baby. But if baby, how the heck?) Once he knows where the Avatar is, he's trying to have his child join him to his side and tries to use the Avatar to his plot to resurrect the Fell Dragon (Can someone say that this sounds like Darth Vader from Star Wars? >>; ) and not give a care about his child's feelings and safety.

Now we know Nergal is the father of Ninian and Nils due to doing the sidequest chapters. But is he the same as Valider? No, because Nergal was corrupted by the dark magic. Therefore, he forgot who are his children as well as his original reason to open the Dragon Gate. And even though he manipulated Ninian to open the Dragon Gate and using her against Eliwood, Nergal wasn't aware that she is his daughter.

So let's say that Nergal was not fully corrupted by the dark magic and that he recognizes his children, will he be the same as Valider? I will say this. If Nergal is in his corrupted persona that we all know him so well, then yes, he will do the same as Valider did. But if Nergal is in his original persona (the one where he send his children away), then no, he will be crying to have his children back and we won't have the other half of the Fire Emblem storyplot.

So what do you guys think?


Do you think Nergal and Valider are very similar to each other?
Who do you think is the most terrible father between the two?
Do you agree with what I'm saying?
What do you think Nergal will do if he does recognize his children just like how Valider does?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:49 pm


You need to finish the game, Isa! Because there's more to be revealed that is relevant and holy s**t is it going to throw you for a loop. Suffice to say it isn't just that Validar is 'sacrificing' his child for Grima.

Validar is a Grimleal. He worships Grima, not unlike the Lopt Sect worshipping the Dark God Loputousu. Also like the Lopt Sect, the Grimleal and Plegia were persecuted by Chrom's father for a VERY long time. Grimleals look to Grima with hope during their persecution.

Nergal's backstory makes him something of a tragic villain; he was corrupted and whatnot. Validar is DEFINITELY not a tragic villain. I see Validar as almost something of a religiously/fatalistic villain: he's trying to accomplish what he believe is fated to be accomplished anyway. Fatalism itself has a lot of ethical connotations that make calling something evil more difficult, too. If something is meant to happen, can people bear blame for playing their part in the inevitable? I don't want to get too deep in the ethical implications, because that's VERY murky water that would bog this discussion down, but suffice to say, you could interpret the thematic villain of FE13 as fate itself: the children who join the player's side come from the future to avert fate, to change and challenge it's omnipotence and immovability. And that's essentially what your army is fighting for. You fight witht he belief that fate can be changed/isn't real. I REALLY like seeing FE13 through the interpretation of it being a battle between believing in fate and not believing in fate, with the latter being fought for by the protagonists more than something so common as good vs. evil although there's definitely inevitable overlapping.

I don't consider Validar to be a "bad" father. A villain, certainly, but not a bad father.

Validar sees his child as inevitably doing what the child is fated to doing which would also bring hope to the Grimleal. Perhaps they consider the end of the world a blessing or reprieve: really would love for that to be expanded upon. Also, I think this is revealed later, but it isn't a huge plot point or anything, still might be considered spoilers so I'll put it in white:

Validar says both he and his father intend hoped/tried to be vessels themselves but were unable, and the Avatar is the first in their line in a long time able to be a vessel. Not unlike not everyone of Ylisse's royal house being able to wield Falchion. This is reminiscent of Holy Blood in FE4, which I love. I actually see more connections between FE13, plot and narrative structure-wise at least, and the Jugdral games than anything else, and I LOVE it. But that's another story.


ANYWAY, tl;dr, I see Validar as a bad person, and a villain of course, but not a bad father, considering where he's coming from.

Avatar's Amnesia is also a point worth bringing up: Suppose they'd have immediately sided with Validar if they had their memories. If a family member of yours got amnesia and then were afterwards opposing something they were supporting before the amnesia, what do you do?

And that tattoo on the Avatar's hand? Dead giveaway to Validar that it's his child.

Manic Martini


Jisen Meizuki
Crew

Stubborn Gifter

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:02 pm


I gotta agree with you about the believing in fate vs fighting against it. Validar is the type of person who believes what is destined to be done (after all, he is a leader of an cult religious group. And it is true that the kids are against the fate because they are trying to save their future by going back into their parents' time.

Truth be told, when you stating that Validar seeing his child as inevitably, it kinda reminds me of what Dumbledore was doing to Harry Potter throughout the series. You know, the raising the person and let the person experiences the challenges only to, as Snape puts it, "be slaughtered as a pig at the right time." It kinda makes me feel like Validar is hoping his child would become stronger just so "Grim" can become stronger to destroy the world.... Somehow, I feel like Validar is using his kid as a tool more and more.... sweatdrop

As for the Avatar, I never did say that the Avatar was against Validar. I stated that the group the Avatar was in was against Validar. I agree with you about the Avatar's amnesia. That is it unknown if the Avatar does side with Validar or not in the past. So it's quite unknown what the Avatar's past was like before meeting Krom.

As for the tattoo, that is quite true, but how the heck can he see the tattoo from so far away? =P
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