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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:29 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:16 pm
Khalid Ibn Walid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_zxLUmtow Seriously, the whole 'The universe is far too complicated, it must have a designer' aka the 'intelligent design' argument? Seriously? Of course the atheist would assume the watch was lost by a traveler, it is the most likely scenario. But the watch could have just as easily fallen out of a plane passing over the desert or fallen out of a truck in the desert, with no owner to the watch. It just happened to fall there on it's own. And before you say that the watch itself is too complex, it must have been designed itself, consider this. Look at a child or a tree. Did your god make that child or seed? Did he take his hands and mold it himself, then place it on earth? No, he did not. What happened biologically? Well, for the human, the sperm of the child's father and the egg of the child's mother came together and stuck their RNA together to for a complete DNA strand. This created a cell, with no intentional thought needed to be put into it. This cell, on it's own, uses it's mother's body, the nutrients given to it, to create other cells, that soon begin to specialize and develop into a fetus, not quite 'life' since it doesn't meet all the criteria, but close enough. Soon, these cells make other cells that soon create a complete human that is ready to be detached from the mother and become independent. Now, where was the design in this? Who forced this to happen? It almost seemed like...like... after a certain reaction, some certain event, this child made ITSELF. The problem with the watch and most OTHER things most theists use is that you use INANIMATE OBJECTS for your metaphors and examples. Inanimate objects are utterly incapable of recreating themselves, unless made to do so specifically. The living bodies of people can create itself, create new cells o replace old cells. Our entire existence is based on our bodies being able to replicate themselves. So, how do you know this universe didn't have something similar happen to it? One event caused the universe to develop itself, much like the human body? How do we even know the even had a BEGINNING? According to many laws of science, the idea that the universe may have never had a beginning as we understand it isn't out of the question.
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:26 am
Every time I see a new video "proving God", I am disappointed. There's never anything new. Wow, The Watchmaker argument! How boring. Maybe if you addressed the counter-points to the watchmaker argument, that would be something worth talking about. But I doubt you even checked any counter-arguments out. For any of your beliefs.
One quick point: How does "the atheist" know that the watch is designed, but a tree isn't?
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:54 pm
There was nothing special there. A lot of old arguments that have been thwarted.
Over
and over
and over
and over again and again.
They were as cheap and broken as debates like
" How could a universe so complex and beautiful not have a creator? "
The question is more as to why would it need one?
The universe and all of existence is as 'beautiful' and 'complex' as we see it.
It's that simple. Just because it's so amazing, doesn't mean some highly intelligent deity needed to create it.
and then later in the video I saw the "You can only feel God" argument.
You can't see him, you have to feel him.
But love is a bit of a mental feeling. That's not something god is; its a brain chemical. Really. The whole point of people that don't believe in god is because they aren't given a genius reason or evidence.
Something like
" It only takes faith. "
It's not a really debatable evidence. It can be a personal reason, but personal reasons don't work as well.
For example, a friend of mine was like
" Growing up in a bad neighborhood doesn't make you into a criminal. I grew up in one and I came out fine. "
It's true, not everyone does. But it stands for the majority, so just because you didn't doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.
So, when you are given a personal reason to believe something, you can't push that on others to believe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, the rest in there aren't worth debunking. I'll have others do it. But really they shouldn't.
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:08 pm
Yeah, I'm not an Atheist but that argument is pretty weak. You can also believe in Gods and not agree with it. Actually, in my cosmology, the universe sort of created itself. The Gods got in on things later but the initial events that would eventually lead to their creation was self starting.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:30 am
Time is the fluxuation of particles and matter moving from one state to another. We measure days by our standard measurements of hours and minutes. Moreover, It is obvious that if the Earth rotates at a consistent velocity then the daytime's longetivity would be the same as the nightime.
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:12 am
King Richy Rich It is obvious that if the Earth rotates at a consistent velocity then the daytime's longetivity would be the same as the nightime. What? I don't get this sentence.
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:34 am
Artto King Richy Rich It is obvious that if the Earth rotates at a consistent velocity then the daytime's longetivity would be the same as the nightime. What? I don't get this sentence. It looks like he's saying that day and night are different lengths because the planet slows down and speeds up. But that would be insanity, so it must be a commentary on the video, which I did not watch.
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:29 am
Why couldn't it be a MASSAGE to atheists?
I'd ******** LOVE a massage.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 pm
We're also made up of atoms......?
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:05 am
I consider God to exist, bur the watchmaker still has too many flaws.
The "It just takes Faith" reasoning also has too many flaws.
If you take things in good faith, you must be prepared that it may be proved incorrect.
I'll simply settle for turning the reasoning on its head, by claiming that God created Atheism, not as a tester of faith, but as another stage in the progress of religions.
Humans understand more, and Atheism lets them explore things more freely than most other religions.
Yeah, i know, i have now possibly upset both religous and atheistic types.
What shall i say?
This is how i see it.
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:49 pm
Tiina Brown I'll simply settle for turning the reasoning on its head, by claiming that God created Atheism, not as a tester of faith, but as another stage in the progress of religions. Humans understand more, and Atheism lets them explore things more freely than most other religions. This is very different way of viewing things, first time i heard it. Very interesting way to view it, thank you very much for sharing. And as to the messege thing in the link, yeaaahh... Nothing to say that hasn't been said.
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:59 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ibc8sD5sgw Please copy and paste to You Tube or Bing or whatever, it shows a four minute long documentary on how the entire universe is simaler because it is all formed by Fibonacci's Sequence.
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:56 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:40 am
I believe I made a comment on this very long ago but didn't exactly bring up fully why the "Watchmaker" argument is so faulty. I probably should have paid more attention in that aspect.
So, let's go through a short breakdown of this...
The argument usually goes as saying that something always comes from a creator.
A doll from a doll maker, a watch from a watch maker. Simple things.
Even though it seems silly to compile simply unnatural creations to the natural it can sound slightly interesting at first. Something can't come from nothing.
So, must it be a god?
There are a couple of problems with this. For one, if we are going to say everything needs to come from something, than that also comes down to the making of this god itself. Two things have been brought to me whenever I see this and is tried to be backed up:
1. A god has an indefinite power. It can make itself.
2. Time is not exactly real, so a god could have always existed without being made.
Two say the first is already refuting the argument being made to begin with. Something HAS to be made from something. It doesn't matter how much power you give the idea if the rule was already in placed. A being not made yet can not make itself through this argument.
The second is a bit the same to where it's pushing aside the fact that something still needs to be made from another. It can't just exist always.
The reason these don't hold up is that they are made in place to say everything needs to be made from something, so a god did it.
The arguments don't support that the force which made everything was made from something as well. If a god can just make himself, why can't the universe do the same for that matter? If a god has always existed, why can't the same go for the universe? Those are the plotholes allowed by those common back-ups to the argument.
The argument also has a big problem as well.
Let's say everything does need to atleast come from something...
Why does the thing which made such an object need to have self-awareness or some form of intelligent? Infact, why does it need to have the sense of being alive to begin with?
A force which makes something does not need to have personification nor does it need to be a living organism to be made.
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This video and argument which calls out people of nonreligious groups seem to always assume that just because you don't believe in a god, you believe EVERYTHING just magically appeared out of thin air. It doesn't always work that way.
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