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 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:09 pm
Is God greater than Himself?
Okay, If Jesus and God are two distinct gods and one is greater than the other ("my Father is greater than I" John 14:2 cool then this contradicts such verses as Isaiah 43:10-11 and the very definition of the "Trinity" which includes the words: "..Co-equality.." in it's definition
More to think about
Matthew 11:11 "Verily I (Jesus) say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist." Not even Jesus? Jesus (pbuh) was born of a woman.
Job 25:4: "How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?" Once again, Jesus (pbuh) was born of a woman. Shall we now apply this to him? Not as far as Muslims are concerned.
Numbers 35:33
5) Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." How is Jesus the savior if God Himself denies this? Remember, we have already discarded the doctrine of "Trinity."
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,"
Isaiah 46:9
"the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him,"
Deuteronomy 4:35
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me,"
Deuteronomy 32:39
"That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else,"
1 Kings 8:60
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any,"
Isaiah 44:8
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me,"
Isaiah 45:5
"and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior there is none beside me,"
Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is none else."
Isaiah 45:22:
6) "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23. "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10.
So what were Jesus' words to us?:
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honor thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me."
Matthew 19:16-21.
Jesus (pbuh) refutes that he is even "good." This is a characteristic of a MAN. When you compliment a man, and this man is humble, he will say: "why are you complimenting me? I am not so good, I am just a humble man." This is how good and decent men speak. It is how they display humility before God. However, if Jesus (pbuh) is God then he must claim to be good. This is because God is the source of ultimate good. If God claims not to be good then he will be a hypocrite and a liar which is impossible.
Jesus then goes on to completely bypass any mention of an original sin or an atonement. He does not tell this man that "a man is not justified by the works of the law ... for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.." Rather, he tells him that the keeping of the commandments and the selling of one's belongings is the path to perfection. No mention of an original sin. No mention of an atonement. No mention of a crucifixion. No mention of faith without work. As we have seen in sections 1.2.5 through 1.2.7 (and we shall see much more of this in later sections), all of these beliefs were the beliefs of Paul and not Jesus.
Paul, a disciple of Jesus' disciple Barnabas, is quoted to have said that the law of Moses is worthless. Belief in the crucifixion is the only requirement
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"
Galatians 2:16
Also: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Romans 3:28
And: "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away"
Hebrews 8:13.
And: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Mark 16:16
Please compare the above with
"The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple."
Psalm 19:7
Jesus (pbuh), however, tells us that
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, Fulfillment of Law of Moses. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:18-19.
Even James emphasizes that:
"What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2:14-20
It comes down to this: Who's words carry more weight with us, Jesus or Paul? Jesus and James both say "have faith in God and obey the commandments and you shall be saved." Paul on the other hand says "Forget the commandments, just have faith in the death of Jesus!" So who do we trust, Jesus or Paul?
When God Almighty sent down the Noble Qur'an in order to "bear witness" over the previous scriptures and to "rectify" the changes which have crept into them over the ages, He also provided us with the path to salvation. Strangely enough, in the Qur'an we find a confirmation of the message of both Jesus and James:
"And whosoever does of the righteous good deeds, be they male or female, and has faith, such will enter Paradise and shall not be wronged even so much as a 'Naqeer'(the speck on the back of a date stone)"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa(4):124
"And whosoever works deed of righteousness and has faith, then he shall fear no injustice nor any curtailment [of his reward]."
The noble Qur'an, Ta'ha(20):112
"Verily, those who believed and did righteous deeds, they are the best of creatures"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Bayyinah(9 cool :7
"[God swears] by all time!. Verily, humanity is in loss. Except such as had faith, and did righteous deeds, and encouraged one-another in truth, and encouraged one-another in patience."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Asr(103):1-3
Jesus (pbuh) himself never said "Believe in my sacrifice on the cross and you will be saved." He didn't tell this young man "You are filthy wicked and sinful and can never enter heaven except through my redeeming blood and your belief in my sacrifice." He simply said repeatedly "keep the commandments" and nothing more. If Jesus (pbuh) was being prepared and conditioned for this sacrifice from the beginning of time, then why did he not mention it to this man? Even when this man pressed him for more, Jesus only told him that to be "PERFECT" he only needs to sell his belongings. He made no mention whatsoever of his crucifixion, an original sin, or a redemption. Would this not be quite sadistic of Jesus (pbuh) if Paul's claims are true "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"? We do not know when or how this young man later died. However, supposing he died the very next day, right after receiving this command directly from the mouth of Jesus, would he then be destined for Hell since he never believed in a Trinity, an original sin, a crucifixion or an atonement even though he was following the command of Jesus to the letter?
If Jesus' (pbuh) whole mission in life was to die on the cross in atonement for the "sin of Adam," and if this was the founding reason why he was sent, would we not be justified in expecting him to spend night and day drumming this into the minds of his followers? Should we not expect him to speak of nothing else? Should we not expect him to spend night and day preaching that the commandments shall soon be thrown out the window (Galatians 3:13) and faith in his upcoming crucifixion shall be the only thing required of them? (Romans 3:2 cool . Should we not expect Jesus (pbuh) to echo the teachings of Paul who never in his life met Jesus but claims Jesus (pbuh) was preaching these things to him in "visions"? Should we not expect Jesus (pbuh) to tell everyone he meets "The commandments are worthless. I shall be dying on the cross soon. Believe in my sacrifice and you shall be saved"? Is this not dictated by plain simple logic? Can we find such an explicit statement from Jesus anywhere in the whole Bible?
7) We read in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) taught his followers to pray to God as follows:
"..And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
Matthew 6:12.
Also: "And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us."
Luke 11:4.
Jesus is asking us to pray to God that He forgive our sins. But how does he want God to forgive our sins? By a blood sacrifices of a sinless god? No!. That is not what he said. Rather, he taught us to ask God to forgive us "as we forgive those who are indebted to us." Therefore one must ask, if someone owes us money and we want to forgive them, what do we do?:
Do we say "I forgive you your debt ... now pay up!"?
Do we say "I forgive you your debt ... now I shall kill your neighbor"
Or do we say "I forgive you," and forget the matter?
Therefore, did Jesus teach us to pray to God that He should:
Say "All of mankind is forgiven ... now pay an ultimate price"?
Or, to say "All of mankind is forgiven ... now I need to kill someone who is sinless"?
Or, to say "All of mankind is forgiven" and that is it !?
In the Qur'an we are told that Adam (pbuh) did indeed repent
"And Adam received from his Lord words (teaching him how to repent) and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Bakarah(2):37
So Adam (pbuh) received a revelation from God showing him how to repent and he did so. God Almighty did not mandate a gruesome and torturous death for "His only begotten son" or anything else. He simply accepted Adam's repentance and relented. This is true mercy.
Tom Harpur, a former professor of New Testament, author of "For Christ's Sake," and an Anglican Minister writes;
"Perhaps I am lacking in piety or some basic instinct, but I know I am not alone in finding the idea of Jesus' death as atonement for the sins of all humanity on one level bewildering and on the other morally repugnant. Jesus never to my knowledge said anything to indicate that forgiveness from God could only be granted 'after' or 'because of' the Cross."
For Christ's Sake, p.75
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:11 pm
Numbers 35:33
5) Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." How is Jesus the savior if God Himself denies this? Remember, we have already discarded the doctrine of "Trinity."
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,"
Isaiah 46:9
"the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him,"
Deuteronomy 4:35
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me,"
Deuteronomy 32:39
"That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else,"
1 Kings 8:60
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any,"
Isaiah 44:8
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me,"
Isaiah 45:5
"and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior there is none beside me,"
Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is none else."
Isaiah 45:22:
6) "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23. "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10.
So what were Jesus' words to us?:
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honor thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me."
Matthew 19:16-21.
Jesus (pbuh) refutes that he is even "good." This is a characteristic of a MAN. When you compliment a man, and this man is humble, he will say: "why are you complimenting me? I am not so good, I am just a humble man." This is how good and decent men speak. It is how they display humility before God. However, if Jesus (pbuh) is God then he must claim to be good. This is because God is the source of ultimate good. If God claims not to be good then he will be a hypocrite and a liar which is impossible.
Jesus then goes on to completely bypass any mention of an original sin or an atonement. He does not tell this man that "a man is not justified by the works of the law ... for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.." Rather, he tells him that the keeping of the commandments and the selling of one's belongings is the path to perfection. No mention of an original sin. No mention of an atonement. No mention of a crucifixion. No mention of faith without work. As we have seen in sections 1.2.5 through 1.2.7 (and we shall see much more of this in later sections), all of these beliefs were the beliefs of Paul and not Jesus.
Paul, a disciple of Jesus' disciple Barnabas, is quoted to have said that the law of Moses is worthless. Belief in the crucifixion is the only requirement
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"
Galatians 2:16
Also: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Romans 3:28
And: "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away"
Hebrews 8:13.
And: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Mark 16:16
Please compare the above with
"The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple."
Psalm 19:7
Jesus (pbuh), however, tells us that
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, Fulfillment of Law of Moses. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:18-19.
Even James emphasizes that:
"What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2:14-20
It comes down to this: Who's words carry more weight with us, Jesus or Paul? Jesus and James both say "have faith in God and obey the commandments and you shall be saved." Paul on the other hand says "Forget the commandments, just have faith in the death of Jesus!" So who do we trust, Jesus or Paul?
When God Almighty sent down the Noble Qur'an in order to "bear witness" over the previous scriptures and to "rectify" the changes which have crept into them over the ages, He also provided us with the path to salvation. Strangely enough, in the Qur'an we find a confirmation of the message of both Jesus and James:
"And whosoever does of the righteous good deeds, be they male or female, and has faith, such will enter Paradise and shall not be wronged even so much as a 'Naqeer'(the speck on the back of a date stone)"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa(4):124
"And whosoever works deed of righteousness and has faith, then he shall fear no injustice nor any curtailment [of his reward]."
The noble Qur'an, Ta'ha(20):112
"Verily, those who believed and did righteous deeds, they are the best of creatures"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Bayyinah(9 cool :7
"[God swears] by all time!. Verily, humanity is in loss. Except such as had faith, and did righteous deeds, and encouraged one-another in truth, and encouraged one-another in patience."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Asr(103):1-3
Jesus (pbuh) himself never said "Believe in my sacrifice on the cross and you will be saved." He didn't tell this young man "You are filthy wicked and sinful and can never enter heaven except through my redeeming blood and your belief in my sacrifice." He simply said repeatedly "keep the commandments" and nothing more. If Jesus (pbuh) was being prepared and conditioned for this sacrifice from the beginning of time, then why did he not mention it to this man? Even when this man pressed him for more, Jesus only told him that to be "PERFECT" he only needs to sell his belongings. He made no mention whatsoever of his crucifixion, an original sin, or a redemption. Would this not be quite sadistic of Jesus (pbuh) if Paul's claims are true "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"? We do not know when or how this young man later died. However, supposing he died the very next day, right after receiving this command directly from the mouth of Jesus, would he then be destined for Hell since he never believed in a Trinity, an original sin, a crucifixion or an atonement even though he was following the command of Jesus to the letter?
If Jesus' (pbuh) whole mission in life was to die on the cross in atonement for the "sin of Adam," and if this was the founding reason why he was sent, would we not be justified in expecting him to spend night and day drumming this into the minds of his followers? Should we not expect him to speak of nothing else? Should we not expect him to spend night and day preaching that the commandments shall soon be thrown out the window (Galatians 3:13) and faith in his upcoming crucifixion shall be the only thing required of them? (Romans 3:2 cool . Should we not expect Jesus (pbuh) to echo the teachings of Paul who never in his life met Jesus but claims Jesus (pbuh) was preaching these things to him in "visions"? Should we not expect Jesus (pbuh) to tell everyone he meets "The commandments are worthless. I shall be dying on the cross soon. Believe in my sacrifice and you shall be saved"? Is this not dictated by plain simple logic? Can we find such an explicit statement from Jesus anywhere in the whole Bible?
7) We read in the Bible that Jesus (pbuh) taught his followers to pray to God as follows:
"..And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
Matthew 6:12.
Also: "And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us."
Luke 11:4.
Jesus is asking us to pray to God that He forgive our sins. But how does he want God to forgive our sins? By a blood sacrifices of a sinless god? No!. That is not what he said. Rather, he taught us to ask God to forgive us "as we forgive those who are indebted to us." Therefore one must ask, if someone owes us money and we want to forgive them, what do we do?:
Do we say "I forgive you your debt ... now pay up!"?
Do we say "I forgive you your debt ... now I shall kill your neighbor"
Or do we say "I forgive you," and forget the matter?
Therefore, did Jesus teach us to pray to God that He should:
Say "All of mankind is forgiven ... now pay an ultimate price"?
Or, to say "All of mankind is forgiven ... now I need to kill someone who is sinless"?
Or, to say "All of mankind is forgiven" and that is it !?
In the Qur'an we are told that Adam (pbuh) did indeed repent
"And Adam received from his Lord words (teaching him how to repent) and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Bakarah(2):37
So Adam (pbuh) received a revelation from God showing him how to repent and he did so. God Almighty did not mandate a gruesome and torturous death for "His only begotten son" or anything else. He simply accepted Adam's repentance and relented. This is true mercy.
Tom Harpur, a former professor of New Testament, author of "For Christ's Sake," and an Anglican Minister writes;
"Perhaps I am lacking in piety or some basic instinct, but I know I am not alone in finding the idea of Jesus' death as atonement for the sins of all humanity on one level bewildering and on the other morally repugnant. Jesus never to my knowledge said anything to indicate that forgiveness from God could only be granted 'after' or 'because of' the Cross."
For Christ's Sake, p.75
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:16 pm
But he must be God, he was lifted up?
A Christian gentleman from Canada once quoted John 3:14-15 in an attempt to prove that Jesus (pbuh) died and was resurrected. The actual words are:
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.."
If we are to conclude that the act of God raising someone up is a sign that that person is a god or God Himself then we need to wonder how we shall then interpret the fact that God also raised Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) and Enoch (Genesis 5:24) neither of which, according to the Bible and the consensus of the Christian scholars, died natural deaths but were instead "raised up" or "taken" by God because of their piety, uprightness, and their "walking with God."
Further, anyone who would simply read the above verses carefully will notice that they never mention either a "crucifixion" or a "resurrection." They also do not mention an "original sin" or an "atonement." They do not even mention a "Son of God." So, what do they say? They say exactly what Muslims say: That Jesus (pbuh) was not forsaken by God to the Jews, but was raised by God!
"And because of their saying (in boast): We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but a similitude of that was shown to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, except the following of conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allah raised him up unto Himself, and Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa(4):157-158.
This is what the "Gospel of Barnabas" says too. If you were to read the Gospel of Barnabas, you would find that when Jesus (pbuh) was allegedly crucified, all of the faithful were weeping in the streets and they began to have serious doubts about his truthfulness and his true prophethood. They said "Jesus told us that he would not die until just before the end of time. Now he has been crucified by his enemies. Was he a liar?" (by the way, Muslims also believe that Jesus, pbuh, will return to earth just before the end of time and will guide mankind to the final message of God. The message of Islam). The same Gospel then goes on to describe how Jesus (pbuh) returned a few days later with four angels to the house of his mother Mary (pbuh) and was seen by the apostles. He described how God had saved him from the hands of the Jews, and had made it so that Judas resembled him and was taken in his place. He told them that those who believe in him must believe that everything he had preached to them was true. If they believed that he was raised by God and not forsaken to the Jews to be crucified, then they would have eternal life. Is this not what the verses say?
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:52 pm
Did you really just fill up two pages with copy pasta posts all by yourself? You're not even having a conversation with yourself. It's just post after post of proselytizing spam. And you've yet to respond to a single post where someone else addressed some of your points.This guild is for debate and discussion, not spamming. Please engage in a discussion or go away.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:08 pm
CalledTheRaven Did you really just fill up two pages with copy pasta posts all by yourself? You're not even having a conversation with yourself. It's just post after post of proselytizing spam. And you've yet to respond to a single post where someone else addressed some of your points.This guild is for debate and discussion, not spamming. Please engage in a discussion or go away. ^ Agreed. I've started to wonder if he's just trying to get as public as possible about his beliefs because a) he's insecure or b) he really, really wants to be in good favour with his god.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:20 pm
Kusugari CalledTheRaven Did you really just fill up two pages with copy pasta posts all by yourself? You're not even having a conversation with yourself. It's just post after post of proselytizing spam. And you've yet to respond to a single post where someone else addressed some of your points.This guild is for debate and discussion, not spamming. Please engage in a discussion or go away. ^ Agreed. I've started to wonder if he's just trying to get as public as possible about his beliefs because a) he's insecure or b) he really, really wants to be in good favour with his god. I'm far more interested in what he's got to say from himself, rather than from whatever source he is quoting but not sourcing. If he's going to copy pasta this much, there's got to be something interesting in his head. Or maybe it's spaghetti. I don't know.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:57 pm
VK Fox Kusugari CalledTheRaven Did you really just fill up two pages with copy pasta posts all by yourself? You're not even having a conversation with yourself. It's just post after post of proselytizing spam. And you've yet to respond to a single post where someone else addressed some of your points.This guild is for debate and discussion, not spamming. Please engage in a discussion or go away. ^ Agreed. I've started to wonder if he's just trying to get as public as possible about his beliefs because a) he's insecure or b) he really, really wants to be in good favour with his god. I'm far more interested in what he's got to say from himself, rather than from whatever source he is quoting but not sourcing. If he's going to copy pasta this much, there's got to be something interesting in his head. Or maybe it's spaghetti. I don't know. If it's spaghetti, then it must be the flying spaghetti monster within his cranium! Or it's the work of our dark lord Cthulhu.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:22 pm
People are already judging me for telling the truth
They assume 'everything' i write is copy and pasted but most of it isn't
I already know all of this, I've read all of it,
All i wanted to do was share it
However, Atheists and Christians hate the Truth
I hope Most people actually read what i write
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:23 pm
Khalid Ibn Walid People are already judging me for telling the truth
They assume 'everything' i write is copy and pasted but most of it isn't
I already know all of this, I've read all of it,
All i wanted to do was share it
However, Atheists and Christians hate the Truth
I hope Most people actually read what i write We aren't judging you for what you write. God knows, I'm a conservative Christian, and that goes pretty much nowhere with anybody on the internet. You have to get over that. And answer questions when people talk to you. This isn't any part of us being angry at you for posting (even if it does seem like amounts of copy pasta) but you being rude by refusing to answer rebuttals.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:04 pm
VK Fox Khalid Ibn Walid People are already judging me for telling the truth
They assume 'everything' i write is copy and pasted but most of it isn't
I already know all of this, I've read all of it,
All i wanted to do was share it
However, Atheists and Christians hate the Truth
I hope Most people actually read what i write We aren't judging you for what you write. God knows, I'm a conservative Christian, and that goes pretty much nowhere with anybody on the internet. You have to get over that. And answer questions when people talk to you. This isn't any part of us being angry at you for posting (even if it does seem like amounts of copy pasta) but you being rude by refusing to answer rebuttals. Weirdly enough, I agree with VK, even though I am a mildly conservative atheist. I have no hate, I am merely unconvinced and don't take it as law. If I hated it, I would have sat there and been part of Draw Muhammad Day and burned down the Catholic Schools and churches in my town. I have to admit though, you take as much firepower as you can get to prove a point in your faith, which is not a bad thing. I read a bit of what you wrote, and I found it very convincing, even if I was still a roman catholic.
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:17 am
Yeah, I really gotta ask that you start posting (and participating in) discussions instead of spamming proselytising material and ignoring most responses. Seeing all these threads with so much text and little discussion is getting really, really tiresome. Please attend to the threads you have already posted and the comments people have made before posting more spam.
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