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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:54 am
I've been having trouble focusing lately, so I keep wandering off toward ideas I've considered in the past. This is something that I've mentioned in pieces, previously, but that I don't think I've ever drawn up in one place.
The biggest flaw with the G'hi system currently is the lack of user interaction it facilitates; it's indicative that I regularly advise players to completely ignore the system. There's nothing we can do to make it grow faster. There's nothing we can do to make it more effective. There's nothing we can do to focus on the abilities we want, even at the cost of those we don't. In short, there's nothing we can do with G'hi at all. We play the game, G'hi does its thing - the two are, for all intents and purposes, unrelated.
The simplest and most common suggestion is obvious: make G'hi abilities 'equippable', or togglable - giving them an 'off' switch, essentially. This allows players to specialise in certain G'hi abilities (attackers on Accuracy, tanks on Health and Willpower, etc.), allow players to personalise their character their way. However, such an option is only relevant if there's a reason to turn those abilities 'off' - that is, only if there's a cost.
The most obvious 'cost' for me comes in the form of maximum G'hi - that is, for every ability you have 'on', it decreases your maximum G'hi (and thus all of your abilities' maximum effectiveness) by a given amount. As an example, assume that our 5 basic G'hi abilities each had a G'hi cost of 10. Equipping all 5 abilities (as we all do, currently) would leave the player with a maximum G'hi of 50, making all those abilities function at 50% effectiveness. A player choosing to specialise in just one ability would gain much more effect (90%, in this example) from that one, at the cost of losing the others. The effects would need to be increased in power significantly in order to accomodate such a change.
Personally, I like the idea of abilities growing in realtime - it encourages people to actually play the game, one way or another. I would maintain the progression of abilities through Minor, normal, and Major based on the amount of time those abilities have been active, allowing players to grow the abilities they focus on more quickly. Completionist players would be able to grow each ability by spending time with them 'on', while players who weren't interested in all abilities would not be expected to do so. I would propose that the total amount of time required to complete all abilities be even longer than it is currently (to avoid making players who have already earned those abilities feel cheated), but that the time required to complete just one ability would still be considerably less. Naturally, this means that G'hi 'experience' would be divided among equipped abilities - equipping all 5 current abilities, for instance, would mean each one growing at 1/5th their normal rate. As a note, because they require an additional investment of time, abilities upgraded in this way would not have higher G'hi costs, despite being more powerful.
On that note, though, the notion of similar abilities with higher costs does become relevant. "G'hi Ninjutsu" (an analogue to the current Ninja Set bonus, since I'd like to see those bonuses reworked) could grant both Accuracy and Dodge bonuses, but at a higher cost than the normal Dodge or Accuracy boosts. Such 'advanced' G'hi abilities could be obtainable as Quest rewards (a side-quest for Kin, given the example) and even potentially mutually exclusive with other abilities (choosing between a Pirate quest line and a Ninja one, for instance). Mutually exclusive ones would be a bit of a sticking point, as you'd want to avoid there being 'right' and 'wrong' choices (which defeats the purpose entirely), as well as potential tension between conceptual choices (Pirates v. Ninjas), and mechanical ones. Still, the ability to rack up abilities as a result of your adventures would be a very real representation of how your character grows and learns from his experiences and the people he interacts with, that simply shoving Charge Orbs into rings fails to accomplish.
Also, for the sake of everyone involved, remove the unqualified "Weak", "Moderate" and "Strong" indicators from G'hi abilities. I don't know what they thought they were adding by making things harder to read, but when you can easily tell the difference on your Character Info Pane, there's no longer any reason not to simply list the numbers. If they want to retain the comparative values, that's fine - we can show "Weak (5)" or "Moderate (20)", with the paranthetical number based on your current CL (for scalar effects). Facilitating discovery is one thing - making simple comparisons a hassle is something else entirely. I think, generally speaking, the devs could stand to relax on their notion of "everything needs to be secret". stressed
One more thing I'd personally like to include on the GUI for G'hi abilities would be ringsets - they don't have their own area to display in, and they fit much better as G'hi-related abilities than as buffs in the Crew pane. I wouldn't actual make them affected by current G'hi, simply because that discourages set use in solo play (though if you have arguments to the contrary, I'd be happy to hear them). Arguments could be made for allowing Set effects to function like G'hi abilities, growing stronger over time (if you spend more time as a Pirate, you'd be a better Pirate), or alternatively having the Minor, normal, and Major states represent 2-, 3-, or 4-ring resonance within sets. To me, the latter seems cleaner, and the former's objectives can be accomplished through Quest-granted G'hi abilities, as explained above.
I'm sure I'll think up something more to say on the subject soon enough, but I thought I'd get everything written down while I was thinking about it - I'm sure there are plenty of points I've forgotten, and I'd be more than happy if someone were interested in pointing those out... sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:05 am
I might as well answer.
I hate it. The current Ghi system that is. I hate how it incentives absolutely nothing. Yes, you gain boosts by playing. But by playing HOW? By doing anything! It's a system designed to be ignored, so people can just play pretending it wasn't there, and that's terrible! Might as well just give the players the boosts right off the bat or at specific points of the plot instead and at least people would get a feeling of fulfillment. It's a bonus granted for being in game that's granted in way too large intervals for anyone to care. There's no known way to speed it up, no reliable way of knowing how far we're in it, the boost's level is confusing because of the two strength designations for each, the song informing of a new unlocked boost is easy to miss and to top it, there's barely even a benefit to it as well. You just don't feel anything from unlocking a boots.
And if the simplest most common suggestion is making boosts equippable, it's because they're actually onto something with that. I like it, because equipping implies that there will be a choice. Logic! If you can just equip all of them, then they would just be active always by default.
And choice, restrictions, means user differentiation. Better, equipping and unequipping would mean absolute freedom of choice on what build one wants. A freedom comparable to the ring system applied to stats.
I wouldn't run a system like that, limiting max Ghi per ability equipped because it would be a) unfittingly complex b) easily misleading. Sure it would open the door to a whole range of builds that can be carefully thought upon by more dedicated players, but thinking of a more common denominator, a player could (and would) no doubts equip all boosts they got, thinking that 9 is the maximum boosts they can have at anytime, and that they have this amazing stat increase by using all boosts. Even when knowing about the system and the way it works, the system is all based around the question "will usin gjust one more boost make me stronger or weaker?" and a whole lot of people wouldn't like having to even be in the situation to think about that sort of thing, much less try to perfect how many abilities is it the best to have equipped and which ones.
I'd go for the more straightforward choice: We have multiple boosts. They can be unlocked/upgraded with gameplay, and you can pick 5 to gain the effects of. if you want a different one, you need to unequip one of the 5 you're using. Some boosts are pure single stat, others are dual stat, others don't increase stats but ring type power or even regeneration, loot/orb drop rates or work as a boost to other ghi boost.
Or instead of limiting it to 5, one could instead give players like, X points of "arbitary values", say, 1000. Boosts cost a certain amount and you can't equip past the maximum points, the current boosts cost like 200 values. This way we could still open room for special boosts that are more powerful and cost more, and other less powerful that cost less and help you fill that extra points that were left after getting the big ones.
Also, I'm not quite certain about giving players the choice of either a boost or the other. Exclusive content is a big no-no in this game and there is still a demand for sweetheart, the same way there was a demand for both Intergity/Abuse after the fiasco that made it impossible to have all rings. So to the whole pirate/ninja thing I would say no. It wouldn't be a problem making the boosts impossible to be equipped at the same time, but.
I like the way Ghi boosts upgrade over time as well. I don't like that we can't see progress or ways to speed it up, which is easily fixed if the devs want it to be. But still, I think advancement could be mixed up a bit. Not just would boost be acquired passively, they'd also be aquired in quests. And a few would be further upgraded by getting badges giving those more than bragging rights effect (Like say, you get the 4th level of the HP boost by getting all gold VG badges)
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:25 am
DrQuint I wouldn't run a system like that, limiting max Ghi per ability equipped because it would be a) unfittingly complex b) easily misleading. Sure it would open the door to a whole range of builds that can be carefully thought upon by more dedicated players, but thinking of a more common denominator, a player could (and would) no doubts equip all boosts they got, thinking that 9 is the maximum boosts they can have at anytime, and that they have this amazing stat increase by using all boosts. Even when knowing about the system and the way it works, the system is all based around the question "will usin gjust one more boost make me stronger or weaker?" and a whole lot of people wouldn't like having to even be in the situation to think about that sort of thing, much less try to perfect how many abilities is it the best to have equipped and which ones.
To be fair, people don't consider ring builds being ideally Rage- or Stamina-efficient either - we don't consider the Rage or Stamina systems to be limiting factors in players' enjoyment of the game, do we? The game is easy enough that players aren't ever forced to be as efficient as is necessarily possible - they consider efficiency as much as they want to, and the game accomodates it. People still regularly use Shark Attack and Hornet's Nest - 'perfection' is not something that people are really concerned with, unless they want to be.
Quote: I'd go for the more straightforward choice: We have multiple boosts. They can be unlocked/upgraded with gameplay, and you can pick 5 to gain the effects of. if you want a different one, you need to unequip one of the 5 you're using. Some boosts are pure single stat, others are dual stat, others don't increase stats but ring type power or even regeneration, loot/orb drop rates or work as a boost to other ghi boost. Or instead of limiting it to 5, one could instead give players like, X points of "arbitary values", say, 1000. Boosts cost a certain amount and you can't equip past the maximum points, the current boosts cost like 200 values. This way we could still open room for special boosts that are more powerful and cost more, and other less powerful that cost less and help you fill that extra points that were left after getting the big ones.
My biggest issue with this - and one of the reasons I preferred the self-limiting system - is the prevalence of 'junk' abilities. If I choose an Accuracy-focused build, I want Accuracy-focused G'hi abilities. If I use up... Half of my 'arbitrary values', or ability slots, on all of the Accuracy-focused abilities I have, I'm essentially required to take a number of 'junk' abilities to fill the rest. With the system I proposed, focusing means focusing - you get a greater effect from a singular focus. In this system, focusing is wasteful - focusing on just one effect means simply not using your resources to the fullest.
Quote: Also, I'm not quite certain about giving players the choice of either a boost or the other. Exclusive content is a big no-no in this game and there is still a demand for sweetheart, the same way there was a demand for both Intergity/Abuse after the fiasco that made it impossible to have all rings. So to the whole pirate/ninja thing I would say no. It wouldn't be a problem making the boosts impossible to be equipped at the same time, but.
This was a rather uncomfortable spot for me too, actually - and I understand perfectly why you'd say it's too far. I'd probably avoid making them mutually exclusive in terms of 'equipping' as well, just because that's a little unintuitive once you've earned them both. If you can wear Pirate and Ninja sets simultaneously, the abilities should be fine as well.
I think the only way I could see justifying this would be making the abilities in question mechanically identical - the names would be the only indicator, between the two, and would represent the 'side' you picked. Unfortunately, there's a limit to what abilities can be concepted uniquely for two distinct sides, and would probably only be workable when we're trying to show that they're 'really not that different', anyway... sweatdrop
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