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Envisioning the future of zOMG! 

Tags: zOMG!, Idea, Discussion, z!magine 

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Elemental damage with rings

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ezaire

Sparkly Lunatic

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:16 pm


I was daydreaming about elemental damage in zOMG a bit ago, and I remember reading a post by JK pondering offering the ability for people to customize their rings with various elements to do elemental damage.

Unlike JK's idea, though, I think adding set elements for each ring could be desirable. At the moment for experienced crews certain attacks are worthless at the moment (for example Hornet's Nest: too little damage, fear effect screws up mobbing).

One detriment towards adding elemental damage is it complicates the game, which is supposed to be oriented towards casual players that may not easily grasp added complications. However, DMS is supposedly supposed to be dedicated towards hardcore players. So I think an elemental system, that comes into play in some harder new areas would be desirable.

The thing I like about adding elemental effects to rings is that it could help rebalance the rings and encourage people to experiment with different ringsets. Just imagine walking into an instance where for attacks everyone only has the three swords equipped to discover that some of the enemies take no damage from them. It could even allow more strategy in the game with a boss with changing elemental affinity, or other similar features.

The one issue I can see with this at the moment, is the balancing adding a new elemental system itself would require. So valid idea? Crazy nonsense? Ideas for improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:17 am



Unless we're proposing that some elements would be exclusively worse than others, I can't imagine how elementalising would help with balance - and if we did include both 'good' and 'bad' elements, it would pretty much defeat the point of the system on its own. That's not to say I don't agree with elementals - but I don't see how using them to justify unbalanced rings is helpful to either system. sweatdrop

The idea of attributing basic elements to rings was talked about quite a bit, after [ JK ] mentioned elementals initially - so the decision between a set-element system and a variable-element one has been discussed some, already. Giving each ring its own basic element would be more intuitive (you expect Fire Rain to be Fire, after all), but the ability to control the elements of your rings makes the system rather more usable, overall. As such, I personally favour a combination of the two - giving each ring a natural, base element (or Zodiac 'element', if we'd be willing to follow MoGa's example), as well as allowing the player to increase its elemental affinity (and add new elemental affinities) through 'gemstones', or some such. The added complexity could be a bit daunting, but as long as we avoid giving low-level enemies elemental strengths or weaknesses, it becomes irrelevant until later on. 3nodding

It's certainly worth talking about, though - and under the assumption that it works in classical 'rock-paper-scissors' style, the balancing wouldn't be such an unmanageable task - just a matter of balancing weaknesses and resistances among enemies, especially in such a way that it doesn't hinder gameplay. Additionally, there's been some discussion on how to implement those resistances for enemies at all - whether giving each type of Animated set weaknesses and resistances would be better than randomising the resistances of each individual enemy. Again, there are arguments for both, and it would probably be best, if possible, to implement a system that appeals to each of those advantages.

Glad to have it brought up, anyhow - I'll see if I can find one of the other threads on the subject, for reference...

Red Kutai
Captain

Benevolent Codger


DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:06 am


I'm more in line with Red's line of thinking here. The elements wouldn't balance anything of course, they're an added dimension to gameplay after all. But what I'm going with the most is the idea that the best form to implement this would be by having base elements and ways to change those elements later on.

In fact, I dare say, aside from obvious exceptions such as fire rain or water balloon, I'd make the basic element of all rings be "neutral", which is to say, the rings would work as they do now.
Another thing I would do is to prevent rings from having more than, say, 3 alternate elements besides the "base" one. And never less than 2. That would make certain rings just not too good to use if you're aiming to have a major advantage in an area - also, the need to keep the base element as neutral comes in here again so that people who just don't want to care about elements or really want to take a specific ring can still bring whatever they want without being hindered.

Animated would need a preset pool of possible resistances they can have, at the very least.
Making it random would only cause players to feel compelled to bring as many elements as they can, in a random mesh, which would beat the entire purpose of the thing. Players, even "hardcore" ones would certainly learn to see past the system and run "freelancer roles" constantly, as they do now, and its implementation would have been for naught.
Making it static would... Make the game too predictable and too easy screw with, as everyone knew what was in store.

Best way would be to make the elements come in play as you progress or decide to challenge yourself. easy modes should have predictable weaknesses with no resistances, like, monsters getting 100% of a elemental armor type (All saws are Flame Weak and Earth resistant); while Hard mode should mix 3 types of enemies with weaknesses that are somewhat covered by the rest of the mob (Some are weak to Fire or Demonic or Earth. Others are resistant to Fire or Earth or Water). Extreme mode would have Resistances to even the "neutral" type, and element absorption. (Saws are resistant to Neutral, Earth, Fire and are weak to a random element that might be one of the resistances (Ignoring the fact it was a resistance). The randomness is applied to all saws in a wave rather than individually)

Elements also add a cool possibility to the game. Let's say that all enemies have "hidden" elemental resistances. Let's say that there's a ring that for 8 stamina, let's you and your whole crew see a symbol over the enemy's portrait that tells the kind of "elemental armor" the enemy has. That's a new non-offensive, non-defensive, non-CC'ish but still essential rings to be had one copy of in any good crew.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:11 pm


Just popping in with a suggestion: Why not limit elements to CL 10.0+ Rings? That way you could add more complexity to high level areas without scaring off newbies.

And the 'scan' ring could be AoE with rage? That's about the only thing I can see rage being used for on it.
You have found a new Ring: Spyglass!

Thard_Verad
Crew

Dangerous Genius

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