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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:58 am
I've never been one to look into the subtleties of movies, disney or otherwise. Generally because in today's society it has a tendency to bring about more problems than need be. But as a child I watched these Disney movies as well as WWF/WCW wrestling and I think I did have a warped view of what a man was or should be.
I'm 5'8" (on a good day) 135lbs. I am by far not the stereotypical alpha male. when I started to "develop" I couldn't consider myself a "man". I was the smallest and the weakest and it really did cause some depression. It wasn't until my late teens that I started to realize that it really isn't the size of the dog in the fight. I accepted what I was and what anyone said and what the media portrayed didn't affect me.
Personally I don't mind the way a man/woman is portrayed in the media as long as parents put those messages in perspective. I think that most parents in society have..... abandoned.... i don't know if that's the right word, their duties in teaching their children. Social matters are learned from TV and movies and their never taught different. And I've also seen that the same parents who have "abandoned" those responsibilities are the ones who have the biggest problems with things like this.
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:11 pm
angelboy_22 ......And I've also seen that the same parents who have "abandoned" those responsibilities are the ones who have the biggest problems with things like this. I'm not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying that the people who say they have a problem with the ultra macho stereotypes are actually just bad parents who don't want to take responsibility for raising their kids right?
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:59 am
Camwen angelboy_22 ......And I've also seen that the same parents who have "abandoned" those responsibilities are the ones who have the biggest problems with things like this. I'm not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying that the people who say they have a problem with the ultra macho stereotypes are actually just bad parents who don't want to take responsibility for raising their kids right? I think I was generalizing a little more in that comment. Basically yes though. The ones who generally read deeper into these movies (male and female depiction, Icons, word usage, etc.) a. don't realize that most kids probably don't pick up on these subtelties and b. don't realize that if they take the time and teach their kids right, then no amount of subtelty in movies will change that. I'm not really good with words so its probably not comming across the way I want it to. Also, I never wanted to offend and if I did I really am sorry.
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:30 am
angelboy_22 Camwen angelboy_22 ......And I've also seen that the same parents who have "abandoned" those responsibilities are the ones who have the biggest problems with things like this. I'm not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying that the people who say they have a problem with the ultra macho stereotypes are actually just bad parents who don't want to take responsibility for raising their kids right? I think I was generalizing a little more in that comment. Basically yes though. The ones who generally read deeper into these movies (male and female depiction, Icons, word usage, etc.) a. don't realize that most kids probably don't pick up on these subtelties and b. don't realize that if they take the time and teach their kids right, then no amount of subtelty in movies will change that. I'm not really good with words so its probably not comming across the way I want it to. Also, I never wanted to offend and if I did I really am sorry. I agree that kids may don't generally read as many double meanings or subtleties as adults. But a lot of the images are not at all subtle and honestly... this stuff isn't just aimed at little kids but at teens too who pick up a lot more and are questioning a lot more about who they are and who they should be. As a parent I get a pretty good idea of what my kids do pick up based on their questions and what they seem to be interested in/worried about. I doubt that being worried about images really has much correlation with good parenting. You can be overly concerned about these images and either a good or bad parent or the reverse. I also agree with you that parents need to help kids process what they experience -- not just images but pretty much everything. That's their job. And they shouldn't just tell the kids what it means. They need to teach them how to interpret things for themselves in a thoughtful and critical way. They need to learn how to sort out the crap and realize that just because someone tells them something, or it's written in a book or magazine, or on TV, it doesn't mean it's true.
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:29 am
Camwen angelboy_22 Camwen angelboy_22 ......And I've also seen that the same parents who have "abandoned" those responsibilities are the ones who have the biggest problems with things like this. I'm not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying that the people who say they have a problem with the ultra macho stereotypes are actually just bad parents who don't want to take responsibility for raising their kids right? I think I was generalizing a little more in that comment. Basically yes though. The ones who generally read deeper into these movies (male and female depiction, Icons, word usage, etc.) a. don't realize that most kids probably don't pick up on these subtelties and b. don't realize that if they take the time and teach their kids right, then no amount of subtelty in movies will change that. I'm not really good with words so its probably not comming across the way I want it to. Also, I never wanted to offend and if I did I really am sorry. I agree that kids may don't generally read as many double meanings or subtleties as adults. But a lot of the images are not at all subtle and honestly... this stuff isn't just aimed at little kids but at teens too who pick up a lot more and are questioning a lot more about who they are and who they should be. As a parent I get a pretty good idea of what my kids do pick up based on their questions and what they seem to be interested in/worried about. I doubt that being worried about images really has much correlation with good parenting. You can be overly concerned about these images and either a good or bad parent or the reverse. I also agree with you that parents need to help kids process what they experience -- not just images but pretty much everything. That's their job. And they shouldn't just tell the kids what it means. They need to teach them how to interpret things for themselves in a thoughtful and critical way. They need to learn how to sort out the crap and realize that just because someone tells them something, or it's written in a book or magazine, or on TV, it doesn't mean it's true. I feel like we're on the same side, just comming at it from different angles. The wording that I chose was probably poor... to say the least. Like I said not good with words sweatdrop . I agree that being worried about the images or not doen't affect good/bad parenting. I think that how you react to said images can say a lot though. Not reacting could either mean you don't care or aren't worried how your child will interpret the images. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that you could have faith that your child knows how to interpret it. Over-reacting such as trying to have images pulled or banned, that aren't explicit or clearly above the target age group, could easily mean that you just don't want to take the time to explain or answer questions that your child has. In the quote that you took I was making more of a point of the parent that over reacts. Don't get me wrong, there are times that I see things on TV or in movies or magazines or wherever that I think you have to have a certain level of maturity to be able to handle. I've seen it in everything from cartoons to teen dramas. The short answer is that you don't watch or let your child watch whatever show it may be. And that there are ways to handle content privately and without throwing a big public temper tantrum. (probably still a poor choice of words, but I've seen it and probably the best way to describe it) Like you said you can tell what your children pick up on by the questions they ask. And I'm sure that when those questions come up you answer them to the best of your ability. Keeping them from getting confused and teaching them how to interpret the things they see/read. I may not be a parent but I am an uncle. And I know some of the questions are tough and uncomfortable. I've had some of these questions aimed at me, with their dad out of the picture I'm a dominant male figure in their lives.
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:30 pm
angelboy_22 I feel like we're on the same side, just comming at it from different angles. The wording that I chose was probably poor... to say the least. Like I said not good with words sweatdrop . I agree that being worried about the images or not doen't affect good/bad parenting. I think that how you react to said images can say a lot though. Not reacting could either mean you don't care or aren't worried how your child will interpret the images. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that you could have faith that your child knows how to interpret it. Over-reacting such as trying to have images pulled or banned, that aren't explicit or clearly above the target age group, could easily mean that you just don't want to take the time to explain or answer questions that your child has. In the quote that you took I was making more of a point of the parent that over reacts. Don't get me wrong, there are times that I see things on TV or in movies or magazines or wherever that I think you have to have a certain level of maturity to be able to handle. I've seen it in everything from cartoons to teen dramas. The short answer is that you don't watch or let your child watch whatever show it may be. And that there are ways to handle content privately and without throwing a big public temper tantrum. (probably still a poor choice of words, but I've seen it and probably the best way to describe it) Like you said you can tell what your children pick up on by the questions they ask. And I'm sure that when those questions come up you answer them to the best of your ability. Keeping them from getting confused and teaching them how to interpret the things they see/read. I may not be a parent but I am an uncle. And I know some of the questions are tough and uncomfortable. I've had some of these questions aimed at me, with their dad out of the picture I'm a dominant male figure in their lives. (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man.
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:41 pm
Camwen (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man. You're right we got off topic. I'm gonna go with agree to disagree on the topic of parenting. Honestly not quite sure where the transition happened.
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:34 pm
angelboy_22 Camwen (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man. You're right we got off topic. I'm gonna go with agree to disagree on the topic of parenting. Honestly not quite sure where the transition happened. To be honest I don't think we were really disagreeing on parenthood. If I'm not mistaken we both agree with the basic idea of teaching kids to be able to analyze things for themselves. I think there was just a misunderstanding that being concerned about something necessarily led to overacting. I was even arguing earlier in this topic that I didn't see Disney as a big problem. 4laugh
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:18 pm
Camwen angelboy_22 Camwen (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man. You're right we got off topic. I'm gonna go with agree to disagree on the topic of parenting. Honestly not quite sure where the transition happened. To be honest I don't think we were really disagreeing on parenthood. If I'm not mistaken we both agree with the basic idea of teaching kids to be able to analyze things for themselves. I think there was just a misunderstanding that being concerned about something necessarily led to overacting. I was even arguing earlier in this topic that I didn't see Disney as a big problem. 4laugh Okay.... so we really agreed to agree... on pretty much everything.....yet we've been going back and forth over something off topic.... from a misunderstanding in my first post. confused That makes pefect sense. xp
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:58 pm
angelboy_22 Camwen angelboy_22 Camwen (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man. You're right we got off topic. I'm gonna go with agree to disagree on the topic of parenting. Honestly not quite sure where the transition happened. To be honest I don't think we were really disagreeing on parenthood. If I'm not mistaken we both agree with the basic idea of teaching kids to be able to analyze things for themselves. I think there was just a misunderstanding that being concerned about something necessarily led to overacting. I was even arguing earlier in this topic that I didn't see Disney as a big problem. 4laugh Okay.... so we really agreed to agree... on pretty much everything.....yet we've been going back and forth over something off topic.... from a misunderstanding in my first post. confused That makes pefect sense. xp lol I hope you don't think I've been upset by any of this. It's been an interesting conversation. Even if we reach pretty much the same conclusion it's good to see it from another perspective. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:41 pm
Camwen angelboy_22 Camwen angelboy_22 Camwen (bolding mine) Well wanting to ban something like that goes beyond parenting issues and steps on Freedom of Speech. I'm not about to go that far because I'm fully aware that there are things I don't want to have banned that others might find morally offensive. For instance I have no problem with images that portray gays & lesbians in a positive light. But I still have every right to disagree with something and use my pocketbook and my voice, and in some instances, my vote, to protest it. I think we're getting slightly off topic though. This didn't really start out as a definition of good vs. bad parenting but as a look at how certain images can affect the way kids internalize what it means to be a man. You're right we got off topic. I'm gonna go with agree to disagree on the topic of parenting. Honestly not quite sure where the transition happened. To be honest I don't think we were really disagreeing on parenthood. If I'm not mistaken we both agree with the basic idea of teaching kids to be able to analyze things for themselves. I think there was just a misunderstanding that being concerned about something necessarily led to overacting. I was even arguing earlier in this topic that I didn't see Disney as a big problem. 4laugh Okay.... so we really agreed to agree... on pretty much everything.....yet we've been going back and forth over something off topic.... from a misunderstanding in my first post. confused That makes pefect sense. xp lol I hope you don't think I've been upset by any of this. It's been an interesting conversation. Even if we reach pretty much the same conclusion it's good to see it from another perspective. 3nodding Not at all, I can usually tell when the tension rises... even over the computer. Its been a while since I've had an intellectual conversation with someone other than my grandmother lol. We'll have to do it again sometime. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:12 am
I have to agree with this video... Back in the day a lot of cartoons had a fixed idea of masculinity, but I really feel like this has changed in the last couple of years. I think movies have moved more towards the rise of the little man than the triumph of the strong man. I don't know I think disney may be a bit more sensitive these days, I mean hell we have finally gotten an African American princess (Only took 25 years or so). I just feel older movies play to these stereo types but the newer ones do not. Plus I know I am biased being a female and all but I didn't know many male friends who watched pricess movies anyways. They were always into TMNT and things of that nature.
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