|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:18 pm
I've been working on something I've started recently called Hebrew Cosmology. Recently I've found some arguments by a fellow who opposes the idea that the ancient Israelites believed in a flat Earth and a dome shaped Heaven. I wish to dismantle his arguments in a peaceful manner, one by which it will not demonstrate any polemics or actual argumentation. Rather, it will be set up in a way as though I am simply writing a commentary. The first word I am beginning with is raqiya'. It's not finished, but I thought I'd ask for any advice. Also, I'm still trying to figure out what "firmament of heaven" means, so if anyone knows, please inform me.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Raqiya' is first mentioned in Bere's**t i.6. It is from the word raqa'. As it is written, They hammered [vayraqa'u] out sheets of gold, and, Did you spread [tareqiya'] out the skies with Him, which are as strong as a molten mirror? (Shem. xxxix.3; Iyov xxxvi.18 ) Raqiya' is made in the midst of hamayim, i.e., the waters, and it divides the waters from the waters so that there is water above and below the raqiya'. (Ber. i.6, 7) This is the second thing to be divided, the light and darkness being the first. (v. 4)
In Bere's**t Rabbah iv.2, it is said, "When the Holy One, blessed be He, ordered, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, the middle layer of the waters solidified, and the nether heavens and the uppermost heavens were formed." And as I have noted in the aforementioned paragraph, it is in agreement with R. Judah b. R. Simon, "Let there be a lining made for the firmament, as you read, And they did beat the gold into thin plates. (Shem. xxxix.3)" Rashi, too, says that raqiya was solidified.
Next, it is written, And God called the expanse Heaven [laraqiya' shamayim]. (Ber. i.8 ) Similarly, God called the light, "day," and the darkness, "night," and the dry land, "earth," and the waters under the raqiya, "sea." (vv. 5, 10) It is unusual now that instead of raqiya' being used alone, it is called vereqiya' shamayim, or "expanse of heaven." (v. 14). Raqiya' was named "Heaven," so if raqiya and "Heaven" are synonymous, how should "expanse of heaven" be made sense without being redundant?
The expanse with which the Sun, Moon, and stars are placed is the middle, or second heaven (v. 17), whereas we are placed between the raqiya and Earth, i.e. first heaven, for it is written, And [Absalom] was placed between heaven and earth. And again, And David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between the earth and the sky. Elsewhere also, [A]nd a wind picked me up between the earth and between the heaven. Finally, And they lifted up their ephah between the earth and the heaven. (Shm. 2 xviii.9; Div. Hay. 1 21:16; Yech. viii.3; Zech. 5:9)
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:47 pm
If i can remember it says somewhere God Grabs the corners of the earth,Corners?? A Sphere has no corners??
idk,very interesting stuff though
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:59 pm
Mystic_Victoria If i can remember it says somewhere God Grabs the corners of the earth,Corners?? A Sphere has no corners?? idk,very interesting stuff though Yes, which is unusual because if anything, Earth as the Hebrews understood it was in the shape of a disc, not a square, so "four corners" is a strange one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:18 pm
Taking a shot in the dark and not having access to my resources at the moment, "firmament of heaven" I think is the area that is between the sky and the ground. Basically like a "lower sky" that the "heavens" sit upon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:02 am
Not having time to really look into it at the moment, I would have to agree with Rob....
It might refer to the more technical idea of atmosphere and air... but that is just a wild shot at it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:18 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia Not having time to really look into it at the moment, I would have to agree with Rob.... Who is Rob? Eltanin Sadachbia It might refer to the more technical idea of atmosphere and air... but that is just a wild shot at it... What do you mean?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:39 pm
I would be Rob. Anyway I found more about the firmament Firmament
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:58 pm
rmcdra Well, there is Heaven, and then there is the sky... I think the Firmament refers to the sky and the tangible atmosphere... but I am guessing...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:18 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia Well, there is Heaven, and then there is the sky... I think the Firmament refers to the sky and the tangible atmosphere... but I am guessing... Where the birds are "placed" and what they fly in. It also separates the waters of heaven (rain) from the waters of the earth (Oceans, seas rivers). As the article I found described, it was sometimes a "floodgate" to the waters of the heaven. Waters in heaven you say? Of course there is just look at the night sky it's blue like the ocean and things sit and move in it. Why wouldn't it be water? /illustrative and productive sarcasm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:37 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia rmcdra Well, there is Heaven, and then there is the sky... I think the Firmament refers to the sky and the tangible atmosphere... but I am guessing... ANE people believed the heavens were solid. I see no reason to think the Hebrews thought otherwise. Something of interest... "And the angel of the Lord took me and led me to a second heaven. And he showed me there also a door like the first and said, Let us enter through it. And we entered, being borne on wings a distance of about sixty days' journey. And he showed me there also a plain, and it was full of men, whose appearance was like that of dogs, and whose feet were like those of stags. And I asked the angel: I pray thee, Lord, say to me who are these. And he said, These are they who gave counsel to build the tower, for they whom thou seest drove forth multitudes of both men and women to make bricks; among whom, a woman making bricks was not allowed to be released in the hour of child-birth, but brought forth while she was making bricks, and carried her child in her apron, and continued to make bricks. And the Lord appeared to them and confused their speech, when they had built the tower to the height of four hundred and sixty-three cubits. And they took a gimlet, and sought to pierce the heaven, saying, Let us see whether the heaven is made of clay, or of brass, or of iron. When God saw this He did not permit them, but smote them with blindness and confusion of speech, and rendered them as thou seest." (3 Baruch 3:1-8 ) rmcdra Waters in heaven you say? Of course there is just look at the night sky it's blue like the ocean and things sit and move in it. Why wouldn't it be water? /illustrative and productive sarcasm "And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse." (Gen 1:7) "Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!" (Psa. 148:4)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
