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 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:16 am
I've just started reading the book 'Sabbats: A Witch's Approach to Living the Old Ways' by Edain McCoy and was wondering if anyone else had read it and what their opinion of it was. It was recommended to me and so far I find it a good read. I was wondering if anyone knows if the content is, well, good?
Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:45 am
Never read it myself but my opinion of Edain McCoy isn't all that great. Sorry I can't be of more help to you.
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 am
CalledTheRaven Never read it myself but my opinion of Edain McCoy isn't all that great. Sorry I can't be of more help to you. What is it you don't like about the author?
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:09 pm
1) The Eight Sabbats, as neo-pagans know them, really originated in their current form with Gardner and Wicca. The book suggests that what our ancestors practiced far before us were 'the Sabbats', when they were not thought of in this way; there was no unified universal practice of all 8 holidays within a single culture. The book also implies that ancient cultures thought of deity in a soft poly way, 'God' and 'Goddess', as opposed to being separate deities. This is not historically accurate.
2) In general, Edain McCoy's scholarship is abysmal. She fails the 'potato test' AND the 'pumpkin test' in her writings, having asserted that ancient Ireland contained both of these crops traditionally, when they were not native to the country and did not appear there until after the discovery of the Americas.
Many neo-pagan authors like McCoy commit the same error in logic - that if something in one culture is similar to something in another culture, it must make them the SAME thing. The assumption that there is some common root for the similar practices of different cultures at certain
times of year is fallacious, and generally speaking doing deeper research demonstrates that. But many authors are doing research across a very broad surface, and do not bother to do in-depth research.
I have already seen several assertions in this current book I would call into doubt: like the Celts celebrating Yule when they did not celebrate solstices or equinoxes, or the Triple Goddess being honoured in old French Christmas carols despite the fact she is a modern construct who first appeared in Graves' The White Goddess. And she asserts that the Lupercalia was the Roman Imbolc, and was a festival where the mating of wolves was observed as a sign of spring! Since the Lupercalia was a rite founded in the early days of Rome that had three tribes of Luperci, or priests of Pan, who gathered at their sacred cave, slaughtered a goat, and then ran through the streets of Rome naked whipping people with the ends of the goatskin for fertility, I think she's totally off-base, and could easily have looked up the actual festival. Instead she chose to try to make a connection where there is none.
To sum up: Not a good author. Not a good book. Very generic, and in places misleading or flat-out wrong historically. More Neo-Pagan 101 pablum for the masses. I never recommend Edain McCoy to anyone who is trying to take their studies seriously.
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:49 pm
I am so used to disregarding rubbish information from my archaeology reading that I tend not to notice, but I must admit to not running into to much so far in this book (I'm only just started). I do remember disregarding a couple common misconceptions as in a + b must = c when really it can equal x, y or z. Is it sad that I am used to disregarding more than half of what is written in a book? Morgandria 1) The Eight Sabbats, as neo-pagans know them, really originated in their current form with Gardner and Wicca. The book suggests that what our ancestors practiced far before us were 'the Sabbats', when they were not thought of in this way; there was no unified universal practice of all 8 holidays within a single culture. In the first chapter of the book it does use the term 'Sabbats' but I think it is just for convenience. My understanding was that it wasn't the modern practice but the practices and concepts that have evolved through time, eventually leading to the modern concept. It also goes through the different types of festivals stating that not all cultures celebrated this type of festival or at this time of year and that the particular celebrations were not universal and not part of many traditions until recently. I have no idea if it revokes on these early statements later in the book. That would be really silly. I'll keep an eye out for facts that don't add up. Thanks!
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:12 pm
StarAngelKitty Morgandria 1) The Eight Sabbats, as neo-pagans know them, really originated in their current form with Gardner and Wicca. The book suggests that what our ancestors practiced far before us were 'the Sabbats', when they were not thought of in this way; there was no unified universal practice of all 8 holidays within a single culture. In the first chapter of the book it does use the term 'Sabbats' but I think it is just for convenience. My understanding was that it wasn't the modern practice but the practices and concepts that have evolved through time, eventually leading to the modern concept. I don't think Morg was really referring to the terminology. I think she was talking about the idea and the definition of the Sabbats as we see them today. A lot of the older stuff not only had nothing to do with what we see today but in no way "evolved" into anything we use in modern times. Hell, a bunch of it was wiped out wholesale.
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:21 pm
CalledTheRaven StarAngelKitty Morgandria 1) The Eight Sabbats, as neo-pagans know them, really originated in their current form with Gardner and Wicca. The book suggests that what our ancestors practiced far before us were 'the Sabbats', when they were not thought of in this way; there was no unified universal practice of all 8 holidays within a single culture. In the first chapter of the book it does use the term 'Sabbats' but I think it is just for convenience. My understanding was that it wasn't the modern practice but the practices and concepts that have evolved through time, eventually leading to the modern concept. I don't think Morg was really referring to the terminology. I think she was talking about the idea and the definition of the Sabbats as we see them today. A lot of the older stuff not only had nothing to do with what we see today but in no way "evolved" into anything we use in modern times. Hell, a bunch of it was wiped out wholesale. Some cultures traditions (in the celebration sense) were generally whipped out, but many did survive and were just adapted, changing through time. I think it depends on the tradition and the traditions. I'm obviously still learning about the Sabbats themselves, which is part of why I got this book. I do agree that the authors choice in terminology was very poor. Any suggestions for a more accurate book on the Sabbats?
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:46 pm
Not really, since I don't actually care much about the Sabbats.
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:21 pm
You may want to look at http://www.witchessabbats.com/, for Mike Nichols' essays on the subject. I enjoy them. Also, I like 8 Sabbats for Witches, and What Witches Do, by Stewart and Janet Farrar.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:39 am
When it comes to Edain McCoy, I generally avoid her like the plague. You can read though the following for specifics as to why... Stop Edain McCoy
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:37 am
Morgandria You may want to look at http://www.witchessabbats.com/, for Mike Nichols' essays on the subject. I enjoy them. Also, I like 8 Sabbats for Witches, and What Witches Do, by Stewart and Janet Farrar. Thanks! They looks great! (sorry, my internet crapped out for a week -_-)
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