Welcome to Gaia! ::

Debate/Discuss Religion

Back to Guilds

A guild devoted to discussing and debating different aspects of various world religions 

Tags: religion, faith, tolerance, discuss, debate 

Reply Non-Religious Discussion (Morality, Philosophy, Politics, Current Events...etc.)
Morality in General

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

SaturnineSound

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:00 am


Let me start by saying this--morality can have one of two sources: humanity, or God(s).

If it is humanity, then morality is purely the opinion of each individual. Since opinions have no facts or supporting evidence, all opinions are equally valid. This means that nothing can be universally "right" or "wrong".

If morality is divine in origin, then there can be one set of universal morals. However, humanity would have to contact God (or vice versa) in order to learn these morals. Many claims have been made that a person has accomplished this, but it is impossible to know whether or not they are telling the truth without proof, which nobody has yet provided. Therefore, it's impossible to tell whether or not the moral set that they preach is the one true set or not.

In conclusion, the one universal moral set, if one exists, will remain a mystery until a God, if one exists, reveals it to us with definitive proof.


I'm not saying that having and living by a moral set is pointless or wrong, I'm just saying that your moral set may not be correct, and that there's no way for us to find out as of now, and it's irrational to argue your opinion like it's fact (which, unfortunately, I see a lot of).

Well, those are my views on morality. What do you think?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:27 pm


I'll just copy-paste this from another thread razz

Artto
Everyone's heard the old "atheists don't have morals" argument. I've had it presented to me on a number of occasions, and have seen other atheists respond to it.
I'm afraid that a lot of the times the counter-arguments were not completely adequate. A lot of the times the response goes something along the lines of "I do good because it makes me feel good". Unfortunately, that still leaves the theist with the "god put morals in your heart" argument.

To explain why doing good makes us feel good, and why we deem something as "good" we need to contemplate our evolutionary history (yeah I know, some people don't believe evolution happens, but you can't really argue with those ).

Humans are a social animal, which means that we need to work together to survive. When it comes to social animals, the main evolutionary advantage is working well together. That means: no killing of the members of your own tribe, no causing of disagreements (e.g. stealing) and usually some kind of obedience to authority.
Another trait that helps a group function better is empathy - empathy is putting yourself in the shoes of another and feeling as they feel. It is also an important source of our moral sense. This is why psychopaths don't have a problem killing or harming another person.
Now remember, these rules only apply within your "tribe", and that is why we see people killing other people so much - as horrible as it sounds, people have less of a problem killing a person they don't consider to be a part of their "tribe". Fortunately, as society develops, the "tribe" expands to a larger part of humanity, and ideally, to the whole of humanity.
We can see examples of what people consider their "tribe" in criminal organizations - people that are a part of a gang won't have much trouble killing a member of a rival gang. On the other part of the spectrum, we have animal rights activists - they expand the "tribe" to animals, usually mammals. I would guess what contributes to that is a stronger sense of empathy, while in the case of criminal organizations, some sort of suppression of empathy would have to play a role.
When it comes to the more complex morals, like "homosexuality is wrong", it usually comes down to obedience to authority - for example, a priest.

I have explained my position in debates with theists before, and haven't heard much of a counter-argument. Those same people didn't stop citing morality as evidence for a god. I guess it's an important part of their arsenal


Any thought, ideas and criticism are more than welcome.

Artto


SaturnineSound

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:49 pm


I understand the benefits of morality, and I realize that morals are most likely learned from society or inherited through DNA. I was not disputing that. (Though I am of the opinion that there is much, much more to morality than what you stated)

I'll readily admit that I worded my argument badly. I was trying to discuss the uncertainty of a universal moral set. Basically, the uncertainty of good and evil. For example, if someone murders babies, is that evil or does it just go against your learned or inherited conception of right and wrong? We can't know, because we have not communicated with a God.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:14 am


Absolute morality doesn't work, because discerning right from wrong is a complex issue of weighing costs and benefits for us and others which would stem from our actions.
There are no simple "murder is wrong" and "stealing is wrong" rules, because there are always exceptions to these rules.

Artto


rmcdra

Loved Seeker

11,700 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Partygoer 500
  • Contributor 150
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:12 am


Are you talking about moral absolutism or moral universalism? There is a difference between the two and moral universalism does not necessarily imply moral absolutism or vice versa? If you are talking about absolutism, I'm inclined to agree with Artto's stance that it doesn't work.
Reply
Non-Religious Discussion (Morality, Philosophy, Politics, Current Events...etc.)

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum