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 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:40 am
So I've generally come to the conclusion that Hell is a place not of God and away from God, and that those who walk away from God, in some way, are probably on the road there. *ironically pleads the 5th* This is just what philosophically makes sense to me. And in trying to determine if Jesus is necessarry or not, I've been told the only way to Heaven is through Christ. But if that's the case, does Jesus forgive those who observed, loved and obeyed God all the same? It just seems quite horrible an idea to think that people would go to Hell for walking with God, but not accepting Jesus per say. I also say this, because as deep as I think about it, I feel like there might be a way that I could accept God, but I can't even fathom factoring Jesus into it for some reason. Everything about it just feels fake. And I have nothing to show for that conclusion except for my feelings on the matter. I don't know. It might be from having been raised around a lot of Jews, who seemed to have great relationships with God, without having to incorporate Jesus.
I just feel like, if there is a God, there is nothing and no one that could stand between us. Of course, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around Jesus being the son of God and all that, but it stirs a lot of doubt.
Or maybe the idea of accepting God first is the baby step, or crawl phase of the matter.
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:34 am
To me personally, Jesus is who I recognize as being the incarnation of the Christ spirit. Whether he literally was or not I do not know but I trust the teachings of the mythos and what it represents for Christ to be incarnate in Jesus. The Christ spirit is basically an emanated window into seeing the nature of the unknowable Father-Mother. (kinda like a gateway Sefiroth into being open to the other emanations and arriving at a complete as humanly possible image of God) To worship and believe in Jesus to me means to emulate how he is presented as the Christ incarnate. "Son of" is an old euphemism meaning "perfect model of". Since Jesus is described as the Son of Man and the Son of God, this means that he is the model of what God would be like if he were to take a human form. I don't believe that Christ was limited to just Jesus but dwells in part in every person since the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. Different people accept Christ in different ways, it's not my place to judge who has accepted Christ since I don't know what is in people's minds. What I can do is call out those who claim to have accepted Christ/Jesus and do actions that are contrary to what I understand of Christ/Jesus. While I don't believe anything can keep us from God per se it's the acceptance of that inner Christ (which is unique to each individual), that is how we are able to build a relationship with God. As my mentor taught me, if you want to see Christ in the flesh, just look in the mirror, there's Christ looking right back at you. The Laws and Dogmas can be used as tools and guidelines to coming to understand this inner Christ but at the same time they can be blinders or veil if legalistically held.
If there is a hell, I believe it to be more of a mental state than an actual place and if it is a place then it's just some place that isn't with God. Not everyone wants to be with God and some are oathbound to other gods. Some people want their existence to end after they die. It's possible that Hell is just a consequence (possibly good or bad depending on circumstances) of not wanting to be with God. An interesting take on hell that the Eastern Orthodoxy has is that hell is being with God when one doesn't wish to be with Him, since they believe all people return to God when they die and no one can truly be separated from Him.
Do note that I am a heretic so my personal views do not reflect the majority's. You might want to examine a Progressive Christian's answer to the relevancy of Jesus since they also tend to examine him from a mythic perspective and also have a wide range of views concerning Hell.
I personally don't dwell too much on if there's a hell or not because not only is not my place to judge one's fate, it wouldn't make a hill of beans if I was deemed to go to hell or not. Next fear and judgments of hell distracts one from the call to show agape and compassion for others from what I've experienced so far.
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:14 am
I agree with Rob on allot of stuff, and I particularly agree with him on the fact that excessive concern over the nature of Hell seriously distracts us from our call to love.
I like to philosophize on it yes, but it really doesn't come into play in regards to my faith...
I also have some pretty heretical beliefs as well, and one of those is that Jesus is just the name Christians give to "the Way" to God. I don't believe Jesus is the only name that leads to God. I believe in one way to God that has many names. I believe that belief in God and honest searching is key to having a revelation as to Who God Is... I think that taking the first step, and accepting God is real, will open the paths to your own spiritual revelations. Of course it seems to me you already have a pretty good start. wink
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:47 am
Oh, thankies for input. 3nodding It helps sharpen my awareness some, every little bit at a time.
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:15 pm
Splendid Sailor Venus Oh, thankies for input. 3nodding It helps sharpen my awareness some, every little bit at a time. No problem. If I seemed vague on anything let me know and I'll try to clarify if I can. What helped me find my answer was trusting that I would get an answer of some kind whether it be a yea or nay. I was honestly expecting the day I asked God to show me what s/he wanted to show me that I would be walking away an atheist that day (not that there's anything wrong with atheism, just that theism in any form would be something I would mostly be ruling out completely). Granted this experience could have been all in my head and I could have just imaged something but the event compared too closed to recounted experiences upon later investigation trying to make sense of this experience. And if it was just all in my head, I still appreciate the journey I've been on so far and at least I have gained a more mature and developed understanding and appreciation of Christian tradition.
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:01 pm
Splendid Sailor Venus So I've generally come to the conclusion that Hell is a place not of God and away from God, and that those who walk away from God, in some way, are probably on the road there. I completely agree with you. As does the majority of the Presbyterian Church USA xd Splendid Sailor Venus And in trying to determine if Jesus is necessarry or not, I've been told the only way to Heaven is through Christ. But if that's the case, does Jesus forgive those who observed, loved and obeyed God all the same? I've been told the same thing. But, my beliefs say that Jesus IS God. Therefore, logically (at least in my own faith), Jews and Muslims and etc. believe in and follow God. Why shouldn't they get to heaven?
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:08 am
Subtle Rain Splendid Sailor Venus So I've generally come to the conclusion that Hell is a place not of God and away from God, and that those who walk away from God, in some way, are probably on the road there. I completely agree with you. As does the majority of the Presbyterian Church USA xd Splendid Sailor Venus And in trying to determine if Jesus is necessarry or not, I've been told the only way to Heaven is through Christ. But if that's the case, does Jesus forgive those who observed, loved and obeyed God all the same? I've been told the same thing. But, my beliefs say that Jesus IS God. Therefore, logically (at least in my own faith), Jews and Muslims and etc. believe in and follow God. Why shouldn't they get to heaven? Yeah, even as diluted as my thought-train can be at times, this is how I end up looking at it. I just can't see God sending Jews and Muslims to hell just because they didn't observe the teachings of the new testament, per say. I just know too many of them honestly and wholeheartedly love God and want nothing more than to make right with him. It just seems out of place to think otherwise.
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