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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:01 pm
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Yup I pulled out a major topic not only because of how it's affected my life so far but it's something of a topic of interest since I brought it up with my new found Catholic friend on imvu. Don't you just love how most of my bullshit and topics come from imvu xD
Anyways, we were talking about Saints, specifically Saint Francis, who is probably my favorite saint of them all. Next to St. Jeanne D'Arc and St. Bridget. Anyways she was amazed at how the violence that St. Francis witnessed turned to God and did God's work. I eloquently put that humans sometimes learn from pain and sorrow, which seems to be the case in many of the Saints.
Now the topic is not about the saints, but after that she mentioned abuse and claiming that abuse doesn't come from God. Now I guess you could say that I'm an abuse victim because of the amount of verbal and emotional abuse I've received for much of my life. She thinks that abuse only teaches people to hate and be hated. While that can be sort of true but it's purely case by case. For me, yes I do hate my mother for what she has done to me and what she continues to do. However I don't go out and hate others and wish to be hated. (Aside from my random emotional breakdowns and depressive states).
What irked about it is that she tried to say that sometimes abuse happens for a reason unknown or something (I closed the room >.>) and gave an example of a deaf child. And how a parent doesn't know if the child is deaf or could be ignoring someone.
So discuss:
Where does abuse come from?
Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse?
Are abuse victims doomed repeaters?
Was my friend's example illogical? Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:08 pm
1. Abuse most definitely comes from hate. From Satan.
2. I think there's no correlation. Some abuse victims end up jaded and have issues of their own because of abuse. Others want to rise above after the torture.
3. Just depends on the person. Also, if said person thought that was normal.
4. I didn't really understand the example. I can't think well today. D:
But I will say I learned quite a bit from emotional and verbal abuse. It made me want to love people to the best of my ability, and be a much better mother and parent than mine were, and to never make them feel demeaned. But that isn't always going to happen.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:15 pm
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Why do people always blame Satan for everything? gonk Am I the only person who doesn't blame Satan for anything including my own problems?
Okay that was off topic. Just one of my many pet peeves. Moving on.
I probably didn't copy the example down correctly, I was a little mad at her so I closed the room as I was typing it, when I got to the example I did it from memory.
And no loving people unconditionally and show people that same love, and treat them how they should be respected isn't going to automatically heal people and show them Jesus loves them unconditionally, it didn't help me the first few go arounds, it's a process. And like any process a little can go a long way. And time can heal all wounds if you let it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:23 pm
I promise I don't blame Satan for all my problems. Or any of mine, really. I really just meant that sin and doing wrong comes from Satan trying to tempt. No one, of course, has to give in, and giving in IS their fault.
I think it really just depends on the person. It what you said happened for me, but it's not always going to happen.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:18 pm
Just for the record, I agree with you Rayvnne, about whole Satan blame game...
It seems to be a default excuse for everything we can't find any good reason for.
The thing is, most people seem to believe that Satan is an actual name for an actual entity, but all that 'satan' truly means is 'the accuser' or 'the adversary'. It is a generic term for an antagonist usually spiritual in nature but doesn't have to be.
God has given humanity free will, and I people don't always need an invisible devil on their shoulder goading them to do awful things to do them anyway. Sometimes bad things happen for no reason, but through our faith, we have the gift to give meaning to those things that would otherwise be for nothing.
Do I believe there are spirits out there tempting us to stray from our path? You can bet your a** I do, but I also believe in free will, and that means we make our own choices. Even when we are being tempted by forces outside of our will, we still have the ability to make the choice not to give in.
Sometimes we fall prey to our own insecurities or desires, which is just as often enough to have us fall prey to those vices that hurt us, no outside spiritual forces needed.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:45 pm
Yeah, that's a peeve of mine as well...
Anyway, back to topic...
Where does abuse come from?
I can't say it comes from any one place. I would venture to say the majority of abuse (not all) springs from some form or another of fear. Fear of loneliness, fear of failure, fear of betrayal, fear of loss, fear of being insignificant, fear of being wrong... I guess I could stop there, I am sure you see the pattern I am getting at.
Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse?
Victims of any atrocity can learn to love from what they have been through. I would also say that this is a matter of free will.
From what I have seen in life though, people who have been through some bad s**t know more about loving others than people who haven't been through any tragedies.
I think it's a matter of knowing what is worth appreciation, and what is really arbitrary in life.
Are abuse victims doomed repeaters?
I think it depends on if a person subjects themselves to the abuse, or if that person was a victim of uncontrollable circumstance.
Normally, repeat victims are self abusers first before they get tangled with people who would take advantage of their self-nurtured insecurities. A common example would be those who continually end up with abusive partners. Usually you''ll see that an abusive partner has many insecurities as well, and so the cycle just continues in those cases.
I would say that victims of circumstance aren't as easily trapped by such a cycle. Many of those abuse victims focus on getting out of such situations, and do so at the first opportunity they get. Yes, when a kid bails on his/her abusive parents at a young age, they tend to get into another situation, but they still focus on doing better when they get the chance, and eventually, they end up better.
Was my friend's example illogical?
I don't think a deaf child is a good example of abuse, if fact, I just don't get it.
Now if you or your friend was trying to point out that God allows bad things or whatever, I kinda get the tone of the conversation... I think... in which case I would have to say that just because we think something is bad, or unfair, it doesn't mean that it's evil. The world isn't fair, some people are born blind, some deaf, some rich, some poor. No one really knows they are without until someone else enlightens them... you could say that the people who told them they were incomplete are the cruel ones... but that is a whole other topic altogether.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:45 pm
1. Generally, the absence of love and extreme selfishness.
2. Depends on the person. Some people can learn by seeing what NOT to do. Some people can't.
3. Again depends on the person and their willingness to recognize their own shortcomings.
4. It doesn't make sense.
In the Gnostic world view, evil is a combination of things. Absence of love, extreme selfishness, and ignorance.
The Demiurge mythos illustrates this. The Demiurge could intuit that there is something greater than him and is eventually revealed that there is someone greater than him but continues to keep up the facade that he is really God. So much that he makes humans to be effigies of those above him that he can torture and make them serve him.
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:11 am
Guys, as I explained, I'm not about to blame Satan for sinning and doing wrong. I wouldn't very well be sorry when I pray for forgiveness if I did. Simply put, it is my personal belief that {Like the story of Job and the story of Jesus in the desert}, Satan or demons tries to tempt us into doing wrong. We, of course, do not have to give in, and once it's at the point where we give in, yes, it is our own fault.
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