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 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:58 pm
Okay, so I'm rewatching Avatar with a dear friend of mine. That was great, but a few episodes in, she brings up Kataang.
Okay, whatever. Fine. I tell her kataang bothers me and leave it at that.
Yet she continues to go on and on about her ship and why she likes it. Then when I tell her why I do, she shuts me down.
Okay. Whatever. It's a cartoon, albeit a great cartoon, but still a cartoon. So I drop it and let her comments slide, kinda tooning her out. But then she started attacking my ship and all its supporters. So I asked her why she insists on doing so when I'm obviously not that way and yet she insisted on making such assumptions like I only like the pairing because of the smut and it's sexier.
She told me she hates it as a reaction to all the zutarians shoving their ship down peoples throats. She also told me that Zutarians are mean and heckle her and kataang artists alike because of their ship.
So, being the good friend that I am, decided to drop the arguement altogether. I didn't even bring up the fact that it's a two way street like I usually do. But even so, I got to thinking.
Was she telling the truth? Do Zutarians heckle and bash as loudly as she says they does?
So I started looking, and here's what I found, and this is just the number of hits (and these numbers include all spellings of the word anti -ship):
Anti-Kataang works
DeviantArt - 180
Youtube - 549
Veoh - 1
Photobucket - 1
Google - 68030
Anti-Zutara works
DeviantArt - 347
Youtube - 564
Veoh - 0
Photobucket - 32
Google - 27420
When I saw the google numbers my eyes about popped out of their sockets, but then I got to thinking, that can't be right. Google's results don't match the pattern of the other sites I checked. So I started (and am still doing) looking each thing individually.
At least for DeviantArt, since by the end of that I'm gonna be buku frustrated and probably drop the whole thing. I'm still on the kataang side, looking through the art and its comments in search of the evil zutarians that give everyone else a bad name, but I'm coming up blank. I'm ten or so pages in and the extent of zutarians heckling kataangers is 1.
And the misplaced art (ZuTara in KatAang) is at 8.
Can someone please point out where Zutarians are attacking Kataangers? Because I'm sick and tired of that arguement being used against me. I'm looking for cold hard fact (hence the looking through everything individually) so I can say, with proof, that yes kataangers are right and the victims of frequent attacks or no, Zutarians are attacked way more than they attack.
What do you guys think? Is the proof really worth getting/sharing for the sake of shutting people up so we can all live our lives at peace? Am I the only one irratated by the whole thing still?
I'm still going to look for the answer, but should I even bother to use it to shut my kataanger friend up so I can enjoy the show in peace? It's not like I can say no, she can't watch the show with me because we don't ship the same pairing.
What do you think?
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:36 pm
I just learned something very interesting on DA that I think everyone should know. When you type something into the search bar, not only does the search engine check the keywords, but they also check the artist notes.
So if, say... you were looking for Zutara art, and a Kataang mentioned Zutara in their statement. You're going to get that Kataang piece of artwork too.
You may have already known this, but I just learned this while going through my research. That's the last time I rant when I find things I don't want when I look for specific ship or something. It's good to know.
Spread the word! There aren't as many pricks than we thought there were (and that's on all sides)
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:28 am
I think alot of Avatar fans who are shipper, like you and I, are respectful of other people's opinions. Back in high school I would talk with my friends all the time about both Zutara and Kataang. I feel that you can only truely dislike a ship if you've researched it and tried it out. Disliking a ship doesn't mean it has to lead to bashing, though, and that's what a portion of all fanbases don't understand.
I think the reason why Kataang tends to have more bashers on their side is because Zutara literally dominated the Avatar shipping war. Sure, it did end up with Kataang in the end, but it didn't change the fact that there were 10x more Zutarians. Because of this, some Kataangers are more defensive and aggressive. Yeah, Zutara didn't happen and what not, but that didn't kill our ship by any means. Zutara art work and stories are still being created today. There are a portion of Zutarians that are just as disrespectful to other ships, though, and it makes us respectful shippers look extremely bad. I guess there's no stopping it, though. We just need to make sure to try and keep Zutara as friendly as possible.
I don't think your friend should have been so offended by the whole thing. I have a few friends who ship Kataang and not only do we get along great about it, but we also love to have playful debates about it. Maybe your friend ran into a few of the rude Zutara shippers online so she feels uncomfortable about our ship now. Yeah, our ship is far more sexy and can be fan placed into smut, but that's not what our ship is about (although it is a perk ;D). Maybe if you showed your friend some of the great stories on fanfiction like your's she may come to better terms about Zutara. Your research was really interesting, though, and I commend you on your findings and taking the time to do that. ^_^
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:03 am
RockyRoadSmith I think alot of Avatar fans who are shipper, like you and I, are respectful of other people's opinions. Back in high school I would talk with my friends all the time about both Zutara and Kataang. I feel that you can only truely dislike a ship if you've researched it and tried it out. Disliking a ship doesn't mean it has to lead to bashing, though, and that's what a portion of all fanbases don't understand. I think the reason why Kataang tends to have more bashers on their side is because Zutara literally dominated the Avatar shipping war. Sure, it did end up with Kataang in the end, but it didn't change the fact that there were 10x more Zutarians. Because of this, some Kataangers are more defensive and aggressive. Yeah, Zutara didn't happen and what not, but that didn't kill our ship by any means. Zutara art work and stories are still being created today. There are a portion of Zutarians that are just as disrespectful to other ships, though, and it makes us respectful shippers look extremely bad. I guess there's no stopping it, though. We just need to make sure to try and keep Zutara as friendly as possible. I don't think your friend should have been so offended by the whole thing. I have a few friends who ship Kataang and not only do we get along great about it, but we also love to have playful debates about it. Maybe your friend ran into a few of the rude Zutara shippers online so she feels uncomfortable about our ship now. Yeah, our ship is far more sexy and can be fan placed into smut, but that's not what our ship is about (although it is a perk ;D). Maybe if you showed your friend some of the great stories on fanfiction like your's she may come to better terms about Zutara. Your research was really interesting, though, and I commend you on your findings and taking the time to do that. ^_^ Another contributer to the bashing is the average ages of the fanbase per shipping. Most Kataangers are pre or early teens at the highest end of the spectrum (or at least mentally), whereas Zutara's typical age group is older teen to young adult (and in some instances actual adults). But that's neither here nor there. I am of the same belief as well about the whole shipping war situation, but I'm the type that requires proof in all things except faith. She claims she had run into these terrible Zutarians, but she won't show me where. I want to see why I'm being demonised so I can understand their side of the arguement. But I don't know how many Kataang arts in and I've only found three Zutarians "bashing" Kataangers if you want to call it that. Two of them were the typical "boo kataang" while one was legitimately a brat. Yet at the same time I found thirteen kataangers bashing Zutarians, rather rudely I might add. Usually when that's the case, if it's made clear that the reason they're bashing is because the Zutara art was placed in Kataang then I let them know about the DA search engines. They're still asses though. I can't stomach much more of the Kataang either, so I'm taking a much needed break...I just hope no comments are added to the ones that I've already checked because I ain't going back to check unless I get a quote or something from some one else. I stopped at Kataang Week - Homework if you want to give me a hand? cry I'm trying to get my friend to help me, but she has no interest in doing so it seems. The very thought of looking through Zutara squicks her as much as Kataang makes me sick.
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:26 am
 in my personal experience, zutarians tend to keep kataang-bashing within our own ranks. i myself limit it to my journal and capslock_zutara (and this guild). i am certainly not so tacky as to show up in capslock_kataang and start posting zutara or harassing them, as kataangers have tried to do to capstara (which is part of the reason it's still on moderated posting). i've also never personally witnessed a zutarian going on at length to a kataanger about why kataang sucks/zutara is awesome - we tend to just try to avoid kataangers if possible.
i have definitely noticed kataangers are the first ones to get the claws out. when news of tenzin being aang's son first came out, me expressing my personal dissatisfaction triggered a huge kataanger backlash, as though the mere act of not liking kataang was an insult upon the entire series and bryke's person. other zutarians got comments like "KATAANG IS CANON, GIVE UP" (so we're not even allowed to ship fanon anymore? why don't they attack other fanon shippers then?). when someone comes up to me and is like "i like kataang biggrin " i'm like "okaaaaay, walking away, not discussing shipping" but when a zutarian comes out to a kataanger it's like "TIME TO CONVERT THE EVIL ZUTARIAN!"
it's really about drawing a distinction between bashing and attacking, and also whether it's directed at the ship or the shipper. zutarians bash the ship, kataangers attack & bash the shipper.
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:47 pm
diet otaku in my personal experience, zutarians tend to keep kataang-bashing within our own ranks. i myself limit it to my journal and capslock_zutara (and this guild). i am certainly not so tacky as to show up in capslock_kataang and start posting zutara or harassing them, as kataangers have tried to do to capstara (which is part of the reason it's still on moderated posting). i've also never personally witnessed a zutarian going on at length to a kataanger about why kataang sucks/zutara is awesome - we tend to just try to avoid kataangers if possible.
i have definitely noticed kataangers are the first ones to get the claws out. when news of tenzin being aang's son first came out, me expressing my personal dissatisfaction triggered a huge kataanger backlash, as though the mere act of not liking kataang was an insult upon the entire series and bryke's person. other zutarians got comments like "KATAANG IS CANON, GIVE UP" (so we're not even allowed to ship fanon anymore? why don't they attack other fanon shippers then?). when someone comes up to me and is like "i like kataang biggrin " i'm like "okaaaaay, walking away, not discussing shipping" but when a zutarian comes out to a kataanger it's like "TIME TO CONVERT THE EVIL ZUTARIAN!"
it's really about drawing a distinction between bashing and attacking, and also whether it's directed at the ship or the shipper. zutarians bash the ship, kataangers attack & bash the shipper. Wow, well said! I agree with you. Most Zutarians don't go out of their way to bash Kataang and even more rarely the shippers themselves. Many Kaatangers tend to make trouble and bash both Zutara and the shippers, which is what causes alot of the drama that we have to deal with. We discuss why we feel Zutara is more realistic and how it works better while many Kataangers don't back up their arguments and they only spew out random insults. XD The whole Tenzin things is a really hot topic right now and I don't think it'll die down until the Legend of Korra is over. They get so tense whenever his name is even brought up. So annoying. >_> Drawing a line between bashing and attacking... I really like how you worded that. It's so true, though. Sometimes I feel like we're going in circles since whever we try and defend ourselves against oncoming Kataangers' attacks, we're looked at as the bad guys. XP
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:22 am
RockyRoadSmith diet otaku in my personal experience, zutarians tend to keep kataang-bashing within our own ranks. i myself limit it to my journal and capslock_zutara (and this guild). i am certainly not so tacky as to show up in capslock_kataang and start posting zutara or harassing them, as kataangers have tried to do to capstara (which is part of the reason it's still on moderated posting). i've also never personally witnessed a zutarian going on at length to a kataanger about why kataang sucks/zutara is awesome - we tend to just try to avoid kataangers if possible.
i have definitely noticed kataangers are the first ones to get the claws out. when news of tenzin being aang's son first came out, me expressing my personal dissatisfaction triggered a huge kataanger backlash, as though the mere act of not liking kataang was an insult upon the entire series and bryke's person. other zutarians got comments like "KATAANG IS CANON, GIVE UP" (so we're not even allowed to ship fanon anymore? why don't they attack other fanon shippers then?). when someone comes up to me and is like "i like kataang biggrin " i'm like "okaaaaay, walking away, not discussing shipping" but when a zutarian comes out to a kataanger it's like "TIME TO CONVERT THE EVIL ZUTARIAN!"
it's really about drawing a distinction between bashing and attacking, and also whether it's directed at the ship or the shipper. zutarians bash the ship, kataangers attack & bash the shipper. Wow, well said! I agree with you. Most Zutarians don't go out of their way to bash Kataang and even more rarely the shippers themselves. Many Kaatangers tend to make trouble and bash both Zutara and the shippers, which is what causes alot of the drama that we have to deal with. We discuss why we feel Zutara is more realistic and how it works better while many Kataangers don't back up their arguments and they only spew out random insults. XD The whole Tenzin things is a really hot topic right now and I don't think it'll die down until the Legend of Korra is over. They get so tense whenever his name is even brought up. So annoying. >_> Drawing a line between bashing and attacking... I really like how you worded that. It's so true, though. Sometimes I feel like we're going in circles since whever we try and defend ourselves against oncoming Kataangers' attacks, we're looked at as the bad guys. XP It's sad how that is, but as I've said to a levelheaded kataanger on DA ( My civil arguement with a Kataanger), it's okay to bash a ship, not the shipper. Shows/games/books/whatever don't have feelings. People do. It's just sad, but people don't realize that hey, I'm insulting someone and the people that do realize it think they're in the right.
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:55 am
on a side note, it would be better if kataangers could come up with better support for their ship than "IT'S CANON JUST ACCEPT IT."
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:02 am
diet otaku on a side note, it would be better if kataangers could come up with better support for their ship than "IT'S CANON JUST ACCEPT IT." Preachin to the choir hun 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:29 am
animeiija RockyRoadSmith diet otaku in my personal experience, zutarians tend to keep kataang-bashing within our own ranks. i myself limit it to my journal and capslock_zutara (and this guild). i am certainly not so tacky as to show up in capslock_kataang and start posting zutara or harassing them, as kataangers have tried to do to capstara (which is part of the reason it's still on moderated posting). i've also never personally witnessed a zutarian going on at length to a kataanger about why kataang sucks/zutara is awesome - we tend to just try to avoid kataangers if possible.
i have definitely noticed kataangers are the first ones to get the claws out. when news of tenzin being aang's son first came out, me expressing my personal dissatisfaction triggered a huge kataanger backlash, as though the mere act of not liking kataang was an insult upon the entire series and bryke's person. other zutarians got comments like "KATAANG IS CANON, GIVE UP" (so we're not even allowed to ship fanon anymore? why don't they attack other fanon shippers then?). when someone comes up to me and is like "i like kataang biggrin " i'm like "okaaaaay, walking away, not discussing shipping" but when a zutarian comes out to a kataanger it's like "TIME TO CONVERT THE EVIL ZUTARIAN!"
it's really about drawing a distinction between bashing and attacking, and also whether it's directed at the ship or the shipper. zutarians bash the ship, kataangers attack & bash the shipper. Wow, well said! I agree with you. Most Zutarians don't go out of their way to bash Kataang and even more rarely the shippers themselves. Many Kaatangers tend to make trouble and bash both Zutara and the shippers, which is what causes alot of the drama that we have to deal with. We discuss why we feel Zutara is more realistic and how it works better while many Kataangers don't back up their arguments and they only spew out random insults. XD The whole Tenzin things is a really hot topic right now and I don't think it'll die down until the Legend of Korra is over. They get so tense whenever his name is even brought up. So annoying. >_> Drawing a line between bashing and attacking... I really like how you worded that. It's so true, though. Sometimes I feel like we're going in circles since whever we try and defend ourselves against oncoming Kataangers' attacks, we're looked at as the bad guys. XP It's sad how that is, but as I've said to a levelheaded kataanger on DA ( My civil arguement with a Kataanger), it's okay to bash a ship, not the shipper. Shows/games/books/whatever don't have feelings. People do. It's just sad, but people don't realize that hey, I'm insulting someone and the people that do realize it think they're in the right. I couldn't have said it better myself, Ani. You hit the nail right on the head by distinguishing the difference between the ship and the shippers. Normally both groups seem to be mashed together into one large group, but people forget that it's actually two subgroups and that insulting the shipper themselves can actually be very offensive and hurtful.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:54 am
RockyRoadSmith animeiija RockyRoadSmith diet otaku in my personal experience, zutarians tend to keep kataang-bashing within our own ranks. i myself limit it to my journal and capslock_zutara (and this guild). i am certainly not so tacky as to show up in capslock_kataang and start posting zutara or harassing them, as kataangers have tried to do to capstara (which is part of the reason it's still on moderated posting). i've also never personally witnessed a zutarian going on at length to a kataanger about why kataang sucks/zutara is awesome - we tend to just try to avoid kataangers if possible.
i have definitely noticed kataangers are the first ones to get the claws out. when news of tenzin being aang's son first came out, me expressing my personal dissatisfaction triggered a huge kataanger backlash, as though the mere act of not liking kataang was an insult upon the entire series and bryke's person. other zutarians got comments like "KATAANG IS CANON, GIVE UP" (so we're not even allowed to ship fanon anymore? why don't they attack other fanon shippers then?). when someone comes up to me and is like "i like kataang biggrin " i'm like "okaaaaay, walking away, not discussing shipping" but when a zutarian comes out to a kataanger it's like "TIME TO CONVERT THE EVIL ZUTARIAN!"
it's really about drawing a distinction between bashing and attacking, and also whether it's directed at the ship or the shipper. zutarians bash the ship, kataangers attack & bash the shipper. Wow, well said! I agree with you. Most Zutarians don't go out of their way to bash Kataang and even more rarely the shippers themselves. Many Kaatangers tend to make trouble and bash both Zutara and the shippers, which is what causes alot of the drama that we have to deal with. We discuss why we feel Zutara is more realistic and how it works better while many Kataangers don't back up their arguments and they only spew out random insults. XD The whole Tenzin things is a really hot topic right now and I don't think it'll die down until the Legend of Korra is over. They get so tense whenever his name is even brought up. So annoying. >_> Drawing a line between bashing and attacking... I really like how you worded that. It's so true, though. Sometimes I feel like we're going in circles since whever we try and defend ourselves against oncoming Kataangers' attacks, we're looked at as the bad guys. XP It's sad how that is, but as I've said to a levelheaded kataanger on DA ( My civil arguement with a Kataanger), it's okay to bash a ship, not the shipper. Shows/games/books/whatever don't have feelings. People do. It's just sad, but people don't realize that hey, I'm insulting someone and the people that do realize it think they're in the right. I couldn't have said it better myself, Ani. You hit the nail right on the head by distinguishing the difference between the ship and the shippers. Normally both groups seem to be mashed together into one large group, but people forget that it's actually two subgroups and that insulting the shipper themselves can actually be very offensive and hurtful. That's exactly my point. I've even run into a bunch of people that only bash the shippers instead of the ship, knowing full well what they are doing. It's disgusting really. If I ever made any anti-ship art I wouldn't dare attack the shippers and I'd put the word out that such things would not be tolerated. It's actually becoming a major pet peeve of mine. If you're going to insult someone, do it to their face. If you can't, don't do it in a public forum that would paint the person(s) as the bad guy.
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