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 Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:32 pm
Ok, for those of you who have battled me, what do you think is my biggest problem? I tend to sway towards stall teams & I just fell like I'm missing something semi-important. Like, even when I win against some beginners its usually pretty close, but maybe that's just the nature of stall teams? Just wondering how I can improve, (seeing as I have to face Luther in the next round of the tourney, lol.). Perhaps Toxic Spikes Support could prove useful?
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:35 pm
i dunno but still the longest battle i've had in awhile xd
surprised i won.
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:20 pm
Honestly, I've only battled you a couple of times, but going for stall is normally a bad idea in this current metagame. Everything hits fast and hits hard. If you stall or too long you give your opponent too long to figure out a counter, and switch it in safely. Use more sweepers, and maybe a solid lead, stealth rock is by far the most game changing move from Gen IV, so using that should give you a fighting chance when it comes to being up to standard.
If you still want to run stall, I would think it would be best to use anything that burns (wil-o-wisp?) as not only does it do damage at the end of every turn, but it also lowers your opponents burned pokemon's ATK stat by 50%.
Combine this with things with technician, fake out, U-turn, or protect and you have a stall team from hell, in any tier.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:12 am
I've never battled you. pm me sometime and id be glad to though ^^
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:11 am
Yokubo-chan (Pee Pee) Honestly, I've only battled you a couple of times, but going for stall is normally a bad idea in this current metagame. Everything hits fast and hits hard. If you stall or too long you give your opponent too long to figure out a counter, and switch it in safely. Use more sweepers, and maybe a solid lead, stealth rock is by far the most game changing move from Gen IV, so using that should give you a fighting chance when it comes to being up to standard. If you still want to run stall, I would think it would be best to use anything that burns (wil-o-wisp?) as not only does it do damage at the end of every turn, but it also lowers your opponents burned pokemon's ATK stat by 50%. Combine this with things with technician, fake out, U-turn, or protect and you have a stall team from hell, in any tier.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:13 pm
Protect and Substitute both have their potential uses, but relying too heavily on Substitute without a consistant means of healing can leave your Pokemon battered from the get go, and that fact alone can already put you on the losing end. Protect does however have the benefit of priority that Substitute doesn't and while it may cause your opponent to switch, if you have entry hazards on the field, I honestly don't see that as a bad thing. Besides, letting your opponent know that you have Protect will definitely keep them wary of what they should do next as they will try to predict when that Protect will come again and that is something that you can easily use to your advantage for swiping in free hits/switches, healing or even beef ups in a situation that normally wouldn't allow such things.
I will have to slightly agree and disagree with Yokubo on his comments in concerns to WoW and stall in the metagame. Will-O-Wisp is a great move but shouldn't be used any more than say Thunder Wave or even Toxic. WoW does cripple Physical sweepers, while Thunder Wave's paralsis generally cripples sweepers in general due to the drop in Speed and chance to be paralyzed for a round. Toxic Stall is one of the most infamous forms of stall, second only to Hail Stall (Walrein, anyone?) and as almost any Pokemon can use it, the longer you keep yourself (and your poisoned opponent on the field) the heavier the damage gets. But like any draw back, Thunderwave is negated by Ground-types and Volt Absorbs, while Toxic doesn't affect Steel-types or Poison-Types. WoW is of course absorbed by Flash Fire and although it may not be as common as the others, it still has the potential to give your opponent a free switch-in they really shouldn't be allowed to have.
Now I don't personally remember any of our battles, so I can't really relate any of what was said above to what I've seen you do, however if you feel that you have a generally decent team/strategy that generally has trouble sealing up the victory or generally always falls just short, you should really consider looking into incorporating a few late-game sweepers/setups to make finishing off even the toughest of opponents. Of course, on what that might entail would depend upon your team, as SubPoleon works great, though even something as ridiculous as a Flailing Gyarados fills the role spectaculary.
Example:
Gyarados @ Leichi Berry
Adamant-nature
Standard Sweeper EVs (252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 whatever)
~ Waterfall
~ Dragon Dance
~ Endure
~ Flail
Of course this thing works best with Rain Support and is easily resisted by maybe just Empoleon, but you get my point, right? If done with care, Stall teams can be even more devastating than a standard sweeper team but even stall teams need an ace in the hole and perhaps that's what your missing if your team keeps pulling things way too close. As Yokubo said, stall becomes predictable, so if you plan on running such sets, you will need to sprinkle in a few surprises for your opponents if you plan on finishing them off efficiently. That's not to say you should abandon Stall tactics, just use them in combination with well placed sweepers and you'll be guaranteed to be spanking your opponents up and down the battlefield.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:18 pm
Archolite Yokubo-chan (Pee Pee) Honestly, I've only battled you a couple of times, but going for stall is normally a bad idea in this current metagame. Everything hits fast and hits hard. If you stall or too long you give your opponent too long to figure out a counter, and switch it in safely. Use more sweepers, and maybe a solid lead, stealth rock is by far the most game changing move from Gen IV, so using that should give you a fighting chance when it comes to being up to standard. If you still want to run stall, I would think it would be best to use anything that burns (wil-o-wisp?) as not only does it do damage at the end of every turn, but it also lowers your opponents burned pokemon's ATK stat by 50%. Combine this with things with technician, fake out, U-turn, or protect and you have a stall team from hell, in any tier. For a WoWer I recommend either Spiritomb or Dusknoir, two of my personal favorite Ghosts. Both a very bulky, capable of using that 50% Attack reduction. Spiritomb has the advantage of not being weak to Dark moves and powerful priority in the form of Sucker Punch. Dusknoir is bulkier and has more powerful moves. Both can effectively heal through use of Pain Split. Cresselia could be an interesting choice for a CM user. With some of the greatest defensive stat spreads in the game, its main flaws are bad offensive stats and poor defensive typing. Calm Mind solves the power issue to some extent, and combined with Reflect and the aforementioned WoW, it could be amazingly hard to kill even with its Psychic typing. I recommend something like this: Cresselia@Leftovers Bold Calm Mind Reflect/Ice Beam Moonlight/Rest Thunder Wave/Psychic 252HP/128Def/128SpDef I think this may actually work well, though it is probably preferrable to have WoW support than to resort to Reflect, as it uses up a valuable move slot. But with both WoW and Reflect, it will be just about invincible on the Physical side. Moonlight and Rest is about choosing the lesser of two evils. Moonlight provides instant recovery, but has poor PP and loses effectiveness in Sandstorm. Rest afflicts Cresselia with two turns of sleep, but fully recovers it and is not hampered by weather. I know this is for a tourney, and I don't know which. Spiritomb is allowed in both, though, and I strongly recommend its use as I have found it more useful than Dusknoir at many a time. I made these mainly as recommendations for future teams and hope you appreciate my input, none the less.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:08 pm
I started my carreer as an staller... funny thing though only one of my pokemon did... with stupidly good results...
Just remember... put attack key moves... no stall team loves to get taunted and be unable to move... that destroy any try to set up...
For any other friendly obvious advice... just PM me
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Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:50 pm
If you plan to use Toxic Spikes, the best thing to do is throw out 2 layers to cause better toxic damage! you might have known that, but i just thought i would throw that out there.
I cant really say much about ur stall team because Ive only battled your UU/NU team. But I would have to say that Status problems are key to a stall team. And that there is no perfect team
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:29 pm
Well, I lost the battle with Luther (badly) & it seems to me you guys' advice is really starting to make a lot more sense. & I think that is my problem, I'm gonna need a surprise factor for a good majority, if not every match, I play. Another problem is knowing what pokemon complement eachoher & I can see that as being one of my most difficult problems. Thanks for the help though guys, & any other suggestions are still greatly appreciated.
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