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1upMushroomCloud

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:14 pm


Has anyone heard about this gentleman and his anti-theist arguments? I was wanting to see if anyone here knew about them and had any opposing arguments.

EDIT: Since people seem not to be aware of him too well, I think I'll take the time to post his famous (Or infamous, if you prefer) 10 questions and see if we can't get some discussion going.

1: Why won't God heal amputees?

2: Why are there so many starving people in the world?

3: Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

4: Why does the Bible contain so much ant-scientific nonsense?

5: Why is God such a huge proponant of slavery in the Bible?

6: Why do bad things happen to good people?

7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind evidence?

8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?

9: Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

10: Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:34 pm


Never heard of him before but I think I saw his 10 question answered on M&R about a year ago.

To say the least his questions show a shallow understanding of Christianity at best. If you'd like, you can post up his questions and we can discuss them here and share answers we have for his questions.

rmcdra
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1upMushroomCloud

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:19 am


rmcdra
Never heard of him before but I think I saw his 10 question answered on M&R about a year ago.

To say the least his questions show a shallow understanding of Christianity at best. If you'd like, you can post up his questions and we can discuss them here and share answers we have for his questions.


Right then, okay, edited OP to contain them. Thanks for suggesting that. He has one or two interesting questions, but nothing worth dismissing the idea of God altogether.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:30 pm


First off if anyone isn't aware of this his questions are loaded much like the classic question, "So how long have you been beating your wife?" He's also making the assumption that God = "Sky daddy" or "vending machine". He also assumes that God is supernatural. While there are "miracles" that seem unexplainable, this doesn't mean that they "break" the universe, it just goes to show that there is still much we don't know about how the universe, world, human body, etc... works.

1. Because not all healing is physical. As for "miracles", we know that God's healing Grace works through people in ways that are consistent with physical reality, regardless if we recognize it or not. As for why God who can do anything doesn't make amputees' limbs grow back, it would be for the same reason creating unliftable rock is unanswerable, it's a logical paradox that we cannot answer at this time with our current level of logic. As for why amputee's limbs don't just grow back, as far as we know, it has yet to be documented that a persons' limbs re-grow. While it doesn't mean God couldn't, it does mean that we should not expect it to happen.

2. Since God works through people, people starve because those of us that can help refuse to hear God's call. I'm guilty of this as well.

3. If someone has an answer to this that's consistent with orthodoxy great. But for now, I'm going to go with my heretical stance that the being believed to be God demanding bloodshed is not God or a gross misunderstanding of who God is.

4. Because the Bible isn't a science text, it's a book of experiences.

5. See question #3 but I have this to ask why is giving guidelines for indentured servitude regarded as pro-slavery and pro chattel slavery at that? Why is it assumed that this means "you have to have slaves" when it is implied, "if you have slaves, here's what you do"?

6. Because it rains on the good and bad alike.

7. Because the cult of Jesus didn't pick up in popularity until the 2nd century. Also his "miracles" weren't regarded as important to his original followers.

8. Well I've never seen Jesus. As far as I know he's dead. I've seen Christ though so I don't know what you mean about never seeing Christ.

9: You are what you eat razz . If Christ is supposed to be the perfect man and the Son of God than eating his body and blood is taking in what he is so that one can hope to become like him as the best person we can be and a child of God.

10. ??? Christians are people too?

rmcdra
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Razsminion

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:36 pm


Gentleman X
1: Why won't God heal amputees?


Lets face it, God is a busy, busy entity and he/she/it really has more important things to do than help others grow back limbs that have been lost when an individual can funtion perfectly fine with just one. Its my belief that we don't have a direct link to God/dess/Primordial forces or whatever you believe in. I like and very much agree with the Vodun outlook where humans simply cannot communicate directly to the Gods themselves, instead they have messangers and other 'servent' spirits that interact with humans. The gods have plans that they are weaving, threads of fate that them manipulate for a far grandeur scheme that our minds couldn't even being to understand without loosing our sanity. Instead, they gave us intelligence, so that we can do these things for ourselves. If we rely on forces beyond us for everything we will become dependant, then we will spiritually shrivel and die. We were given an intelligance so we can evolve as a species and can move forwards as a civilization. God doesn't interfer because he doesn't need to. He gave us the capability to do it for him/her/it one day.

Gentleman X
2: Why are there so many starving people in the world?

Cruel minds perhaps? Greed and selfishness? There is enough food in the world, so the only fault for this is our own, it has nothing to do with forces beyond ourselves but instead this is more or less something that is a human problem. The God/desses/Primal forces have given us the resorces, we as humans just choose to horde and squander it for our choosing. 'God' in not a magical end all or cure all.

Gentleman X
3: Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

The only thing that I can think of for this is that God is not 'all loving' as many claim, indeed, punishing children for the brutality of the father is what we would concider a travisty. Either this was for a far grandeur plan or the wrong 'Servent' was sent to deal with a problem. It could also be noted that not all God/dess/Primordial forces are good. There are negative forces in this world as there is positive, to peg all the happenings on one force is a little questionable, however, if that was the case then perhaps the good of the many required the sacrifice of the few. Unfair? Yes. Do I agree with it? No. But I know it happened for some reason and that scheme is beyond my mortal scope of knowledge. Then again... to play devils advocate, this could all have been a very natural occuarence. Other instances.
As for a more broad look on things, I will propose the theory of balance; there is positive and negative energy in this world, and both must exist equally if true harmony and balance is to be obtained. Nature, and the forces that govern it, will seek to keep a balance whenever possible and sometimes a removal of this positive energy is needed to maintain the perfection that the balance produces. It isn't always fair, and sometimes it can seem downright creul, however our place is to provide the balance, not question it. It will lead to questions that we could never answer or drive us to insanity if we ever did figure it out.

Gentleman X
4: Why does the Bible contain so much ant-scientific nonsense?

The bible acts more as a moral compass for those who look upon it, it provides stories and experiences that offer up wisdom in how to better deal with a situation in which we may find ourselves. We also have to keep in mind that the Bible was written a very long time ago when science was either in its infancy or not even known at all. Those writting it are explaining things the best they can with the terminology and knowledge that they possess, which has sense evolved over time. Science back then was thought along the lines of 'witchcraft' it consisted of chemicals and reactions that were not well understood and probably either hurt others or used to manipulate and swindle the population, thus it was debunked and discreditied as 'workings of wicked'.

Gentleman X
5: Why is God such a huge proponant of slavery in the Bible?

Keep in mind that the Bible was written in the time were slaves were common and a sign of statis, the bible reflects expereinces form back in the days when slavery was common place and openly accepted, this bares testiment as to how far man has evolved and reshaped his line of thinking towards something more positive. It could also be argued that we as mortals are slaves to higher powers in a way. We chain ourselves to ideals in which we feel the God/desses/Primordial forces want us to do, and with that mentality the deities send examples so that we understand it better and thus relate a little better to the lessons offered.

Gentleman X
6: Why do bad things happen to good people?

People are people, their actions will deliver a set of consequences, negative influences don't discriminate between who diserves to have bad things or who deserves good things. This, in my belief has nothing to do with Deities, it has more to do with karma or just perhaps random events that lead to greater things. I'm sure that whatever diety you worship isn't hunched over and cackling to themselves wondering how their going to screw up your life specificially.

Gentleman X
7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind evidence?

... because things decay, get worn down and shift throughout time. Not much more I can think of to say on that one... really.

Gentleman X
8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?

Really? Really?? Thats... just... selfish arrogence. I think a better question is why a higher power would show themselves to us. If I see a Deity, not a servent, I know I'm in a bit of trouble. The Deities have better things to do than come down to the mortal plane and shake the hands of their creation. That would interfer with evolution of humanity in my opinion. I for one am greatful that Jesus or any other diety hasn't come down. Humans are an arrogent and cruel creatures that seek domination of things that they either don't understand or don't agree with. Perhaps I can answer this quesiton with: Because He knows better.

Gentleman X
9: Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

...I don't think that he's being literal... though I suppose that in his own way he may be subtly telling us that Cannibalism is the way to enlightenment. I think his words were either misinterperated or misunderstood. I suppose that you could look at it in another way though: Blood is the source of life, and concidered sacride, by drinking his blood he is offering longlivity in life. The flesh... I'm not sure. I'm not really aware of any sort of significants to the consumption of flesh.

Gentleman X
10: Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?

Christians are human beings and the fickle nature of humans can be rather spontanious. Divorce happens because people often rush into marriage or maybe their love degenerates into something of a friendship role instead. Either way, Love is a fickle beast at the best of times. Why should Christians be singled out of it?
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