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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:03 am
My husband told me that he killed a dog in the middle east. I forget where he was exactally. He said it was on the runway {Alright, just chase it off}, but it kept comming back. Someone made the decision that it was rabid {I don't know why they made that diagnosis or if it even was correct}, so they were told to kill it. They could not shoot it {which would have been too humane.... stare }. So they ran it down with the jeep and threw the door open in to it. How lovely... He said they killed it right then, but he might have just been saying that so I didn't murder him.
I do not like the thought of killing animals just to kill. If you are hunting and are going to eat whatever you shoot then that is alright with me. If an animal is suffering from a fatal injury or rabies, then okay. But some ways are just sick. Like the way above. That really hurt my feelings. Also his family is pretty sick. His sister was talking about her boyfriend hitting an already dead groundhog, just because they could. It ended up getting kicked up at the person behind them and hit their windshield. Lucky for them, they knew the person behind them, but how sick! I know it is dead, but that is just disrepectful.
What does your religion say about killing animals? Your morals?
Do you believe that killing is humane? Any form of killing, like shooting, decapitating, et cetera.
Why do you think people have no respect for animals?
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:13 pm
I'm probably going to incite a lot of debate here as an animal rights activist, but here goes. I'd like to point out first that I am not a zealous PETA nut. For the sake of discussion, I'm going to mention a few of the issues concerning the killing of animals.
I don't think it's right to harm any living being unless it is harming me or it is in such a condition where it is suffering greatly. There's always going to be the people that go, "what about the bugs you step on every day?" or something of the sort. This is not what I mean. INTENTIONAL harm to animals is what I avoid. There's no getting around the fact that we kill living things every day. I strive to do the least harm possible.
I'm not a vegetarian because of the animals, but I'd like to point out I do find the cruelty in the food industry appalling. Animals are denied every natural behavior to them and treated as machines. I'm not against eating meat, but I strongly believe that standards need to be improved for raising food animals. The health of people could be improved by improving the quality of the meat. All the hormones and drugs they put in them..ugh. Meat is not necessary for survival (unless you're an Inuit or something). That's not my point, though. Vegetarianism is my personal choice.
I also don't agree with the majority of animal testing, on scientific grounds more than anything. This is where I'm sure people will disagree. I will go ahead and say that killing animals for cosmetic testing is utterly cruel and unnecessary (emotions talking here, obviously). As for drug testing, only eight percent of drugs make it on to the market ( source for those of you who like fact-checking. This link also covers a few more of the points I'm going to make.) It's common to see a drug work on animals, but not on humans, and vice versa. Animals have different body chemistry and such. Animals often don't develop diseases the way we do (such as, we can cure cancer in rats but not in humans, and we've tried for decades to find a cure for AIDS but no species has the same reactions as we do). Total abolition of animal testing is unrealistic; however, it needs to be phased out. Too many animals die for nothing. Look at how many drugs are recalled for deathly side-effects that animal testing didn't detect. A lot of people die due to the inaccuracies of animal testing.
I might come back to the hunting/trapping and wearing animals for clothing issues later. I'm feeling too lazy at this point.
People abuse animals simply because they want to feel superior. It gives them psychological gratification to hurt a creature who is (usually) smaller than themselves. This is not to say that I think people who test on, wear, eat, etc animals are cruel and take pleasure in knowing they are hurting an animal. Many just aren't aware of the suffering their actions cause. I'm mainly talking about people who kill and torture animals for no other reason than to watch them suffer. We like to assert dominance over the animal kingdom because we supposedly are the most intelligent. I never saw the logic in that. We're inferior to other species in plenty of ways. There's animals who see, hear, swim, run, etc better than us. If higher intelligence does give us dominion, we need to recognize and respect the abilities of other species that are superior to ours.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:20 pm
Aakosir
What does your religion say about killing animals? Your morals?My religion doesn't condone nor condemn. We are free to act according to how our conscience dictates. So if we don't want to kill animals, we don't have to, and vice versa. My morals, I am against killing for sport, as long as you use all parts of the animal then fine. But don't kill a deer for it's antlers and leave the rest for spoil. Quote: Do you believe that killing is humane? Any form of killing, like shooting, decapitating, et cetera. It's like my husband said, there is no humane way to kill any thing. To me, the most humane way to kill, is to make as quick and painless as possible. Don't mame the animal and watch it suffer. That's cruel. And if the animal is suffereing, like a dog that is suffering from terminal cancer and is in great pain, I think the most humane thing to do is to put it to sleep that way it is no longer suffering. Keeping the dog alive and shoving pill after pill down its throat is just as cruel as maming an animal and watching it die slowly. Quote: Why do you think people have no respect for animals? I can't honestly say for sure. There are those who don't believe animals have feelings. Others view that it gives them power to beat on a helpless animal. Some just like to be mean. I honestly cannot say. People like that disgust me. I hate to see any living thing suffer and it gets under my skin when people are deliberately cruel.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:12 pm
Aakosir h y p o c h r i s t i I'm probably going to incite a lot of debate here as an animal rights activist, but here goes. I'd like to point out first that I am not a zealous PETA nut. For the sake of discussion, I'm going to mention a few of the issues concerning the killing of animals.
I don't think it's right to harm any living being unless it is harming me or it is in such a condition where it is suffering greatly. There's always going to be the people that go, "what about the bugs you step on every day?" or something of the sort. This is not what I mean. INTENTIONAL harm to animals is what I avoid. There's no getting around the fact that we kill living things every day. I strive to do the least harm possible.
I'm not a vegetarian because of the animals, but I'd like to point out I do find the cruelty in the food industry appalling. Animals are denied every natural behavior to them and treated as machines. I'm not against eating meat, but I strongly believe that standards need to be improved for raising food animals. The health of people could be improved by improving the quality of the meat. All the hormones and drugs they put in them..ugh. Meat is not necessary for survival (unless you're an Inuit or something). That's not my point, though. Vegetarianism is my personal choice.
I also don't agree with the majority of animal testing, on scientific grounds more than anything. This is where I'm sure people will disagree. I will go ahead and say that killing animals for cosmetic testing is utterly cruel and unnecessary (emotions talking here, obviously). As for drug testing, only eight percent of drugs make it on to the market ( source for those of you who like fact-checking. This link also covers a few more of the points I'm going to make.) It's common to see a drug work on animals, but not on humans, and vice versa. Animals have different body chemistry and such. Animals often don't develop diseases the way we do (such as, we can cure cancer in rats but not in humans, and we've tried for decades to find a cure for AIDS but no species has the same reactions as we do). Total abolition of animal testing is unrealistic; however, it needs to be phased out. Too many animals die for nothing. Look at how many drugs are recalled for deathly side-effects that animal testing didn't detect. A lot of people die due to the inaccuracies of animal testing.
I might come back to the hunting/trapping and wearing animals for clothing issues later. I'm feeling too lazy at this point.
People abuse animals simply because they want to feel superior. It gives them psychological gratification to hurt a creature who is (usually) smaller than themselves. This is not to say that I think people who test on, wear, eat, etc animals are cruel and take pleasure in knowing they are hurting an animal. Many just aren't aware of the suffering their actions cause. I'm mainly talking about people who kill and torture animals for no other reason than to watch them suffer. We like to assert dominance over the animal kingdom because we supposedly are the most intelligent. I never saw the logic in that. We're inferior to other species in plenty of ways. There's animals who see, hear, swim, run, etc better than us. If higher intelligence does give us dominion, we need to recognize and respect the abilities of other species that are superior to ours. You bring up many good points. I do not like to kill bugs either. They all serve a purpose. My mother-in-law does not hesitate to kill moths or spiders and everything inbetween. I hate it. But I have to say I do kill flies and silver fish. They are dirty and can make you sick.
I do not agree with animal testing. Testing intellegence is one thing, but rubbing chemicals on them is just harsh and uncalled for. People will volunteer, but there has to be a perk... I do not like to use certain cosmetics because of what they use. MAC tests on animals and uses pig fat. Mary Kay does not and uses beeswax. I know someone who is in love with MAC, but doesn't care about what they use, even though she claims she does.
The treatment of animals that are raised for food is wrong. My mom gets half a cow at butcher time and we know they were raised correctly with a large pasture and healthy feed. We know the farmer personally. We used to get farm fresh eggs, I am not sure what happened there. But there is a "farm" near us that raises cows. The "pasture" is dirt and mud. The cows have no room to move. But, of course, it is not illegal.
Oh and I forgot to ask. As a vegetarian do you, personally, have to take many vitamins? My sister went on a vegetarian kick and she was really malnourished. She did not last long and was kind of hypocritical with it. But I have heard some people need to take a lot of vitamins.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:40 pm
Aakosir You bring up many good points. I do not like to kill bugs either. They all serve a purpose. My mother-in-law does not hesitate to kill moths or spiders and everything inbetween. I hate it. But I have to say I do kill flies and silver fish. They are dirty and can make you sick.
I do not agree with animal testing. Testing intellegence is one thing, but rubbing chemicals on them is just harsh and uncalled for. People will volunteer, but there has to be a perk... I do not like to use certain cosmetics because of what they use. MAC tests on animals and uses pig fat. Mary Kay does not and uses beeswax. I know someone who is in love with MAC, but doesn't care about what they use, even though she claims she does.
The treatment of animals that are raised for food is wrong. My mom gets half a cow at butcher time and we know they were raised correctly with a large pasture and healthy feed. We know the farmer personally. We used to get farm fresh eggs, I am not sure what happened there. But there is a "farm" near us that raises cows. The "pasture" is dirt and mud. The cows have no room to move. But, of course, it is not illegal.
Oh and I forgot to ask. As a vegetarian do you, personally, have to take many vitamins? My sister went on a vegetarian kick and she was really malnourished. She did not last long and was kind of hypocritical with it. But I have heard some people need to take a lot of vitamins. I'm grateful to see that I'm not the only one who holds these opinions, especially about animal testing. 3nodding They're used because they're cheap and can't defend themselves, not because they have a striking relevance to us physiologically. I too avoid cosmetic products that have been tested on animals.
Nah, I've never had to take vitamins. I'm careful to make sure I get a well-rounded diet so that I don't lack any essential nutrients or get too much. Iron is a common problem with a lot of vegetarians, particularly new ones. It's pretty easy to get through grains (cereal and oatmeal are GREAT for this) or pasta. I'm a regular blood donor and haven't had an issue with iron. Vegetarianism is not for everyone, so that's why I understand that some people prefer that meat be in their diets. Not eating meat made me feel a lot better (physically), so that's why I stuck with it.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:30 pm
h y p o c h r i s t i Aakosir You bring up many good points. I do not like to kill bugs either. They all serve a purpose. My mother-in-law does not hesitate to kill moths or spiders and everything inbetween. I hate it. But I have to say I do kill flies and silver fish. They are dirty and can make you sick.
I do not agree with animal testing. Testing intellegence is one thing, but rubbing chemicals on them is just harsh and uncalled for. People will volunteer, but there has to be a perk... I do not like to use certain cosmetics because of what they use. MAC tests on animals and uses pig fat. Mary Kay does not and uses beeswax. I know someone who is in love with MAC, but doesn't care about what they use, even though she claims she does.
The treatment of animals that are raised for food is wrong. My mom gets half a cow at butcher time and we know they were raised correctly with a large pasture and healthy feed. We know the farmer personally. We used to get farm fresh eggs, I am not sure what happened there. But there is a "farm" near us that raises cows. The "pasture" is dirt and mud. The cows have no room to move. But, of course, it is not illegal.
Oh and I forgot to ask. As a vegetarian do you, personally, have to take many vitamins? My sister went on a vegetarian kick and she was really malnourished. She did not last long and was kind of hypocritical with it. But I have heard some people need to take a lot of vitamins. I'm grateful to see that I'm not the only one who holds these opinions, especially about animal testing. 3nodding They're used because they're cheap and can't defend themselves, not because they have a striking relevance to us physiologically. I too avoid cosmetic products that have been tested on animals.
Nah, I've never had to take vitamins. I'm careful to make sure I get a well-rounded diet so that I don't lack any essential nutrients or get too much. Iron is a common problem with a lot of vegetarians, particularly new ones. It's pretty easy to get through grains (cereal and oatmeal are GREAT for this) or pasta. I'm a regular blood donor and haven't had an issue with iron. Vegetarianism is not for everyone, so that's why I understand that some people prefer that meat be in their diets. Not eating meat made me feel a lot better (physically), so that's why I stuck with it. My family is all like this. Even my brothers who hunt. They don't waste or kill just for sport.
My sister has always been anemic so I understand now why she did not do well. I haven't had any issues either. I guess there are vegetarians who wish to stay vegetarians even though they have mineral efficencies. I like my meat too much to give it up stressed
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:53 am
What do you mean by "killing animals"? I mean, do you mean all animals, or just those animals in which aren't human? Because it's natural for species to fight against another species (we call it the Predator-Prey Effect or [in some instants] parasitism).
For example: The wolf eats the rabbit for food. The tick sucks the human's blood for food. The human hunts the deer for food and entertainment.
Entertainment is a personality requirement that specific species, like humans and dolphins, need for social and mental health. This is why killing animals for entertainment can be a good thing.
Though, I don't agree with killing any animal unless we are required to. Now, with your story of your Husband in a middle-eastern country killing a dog, perhaps they didn't have a gun and the dog really was rabid? Maybe the canine left them no chose.
The only time I justify killing ANY animal (humans included) is for two things: :- Food :- Self Defense
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:45 pm
Old Man Ryver What do you mean by "killing animals"? I mean, do you mean all animals, or just those animals in which aren't human? Because it's natural for species to fight against another species (we call it the Predator-Prey Effect or [in some instants] parasitism). For example: The wolf eats the rabbit for food. The tick sucks the human's blood for food. The human hunts the deer for food and entertainment. Entertainment is a personality requirement that specific species, like humans and dolphins, need for social and mental health. This is why killing animals for entertainment can be a good thing. Though, I don't agree with killing any animal unless we are required to. Now, with your story of your Husband in a middle-eastern country killing a dog, perhaps they didn't have a gun and the dog really was rabid? Maybe the canine left them no chose. The only time I justify killing ANY animal (humans included) is for two things: :- Food :- Self Defense He's a Marine...
And I am talking about humans killing animals. We do not need to kill like lions and wolves do. We can go to the grocery store and get our food. Killing for sport is wrong... To me.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:36 pm
Quote: What does your religion say about killing animals? Your morals? My religion is one of respect, rather than reverence (unless the animal in question is a felid, lagomorph or canid). Respecting an animal does not mean that I wont eat it, it merely means before I do so, I endevour to ensure that the animal was raised in a healthy environment, and was killed humanely. Then before I eat it, I thank the animal for it's sacrifice. If I didn't need to eat meat (for medical reasons), I wouldn't, even the meat I do eat is selectively chosen. I don't eat ovine, or caprine animals for example. Quote: Do you believe that killing is humane? Any form of killing, like shooting, decapitating, et cetera. It depends on how quick the death is. If the animal undergoes undue suffering (such as when they don't stun the animal before slaughter) then that is not an appropriate slaughter method. Hunting I have no problem with, as long as it is not recreational. If you're going to eat the animal you just shot humanely, and use it's pelt, then fine, you go right ahead. I do however have a problem when 'hunting' an animal involves a chained animal, a helicopter, or drowning it in a stream after you jumped on it from a tree. I love most of all the hunters who use bows, or throwing spears (and know how to use them well, might I add), because it gives the animal a fighting chance to escape. Also if the animal is in a state of suffering that impairs it's quality of life, then euthanasia is an appropriate treatment. As long as the euthanasia is of a humane method, such as pentobarb, or captive bolt. Just mentioning that you cannot eat animals euthed with pentobarb, because, funnily enough, it will kill you too. It's killed lions in the past...due to human negligence regarding the source of meat more than anything else. Quote: Why do you think people have no respect for animals? Alas, it seems to be the climate we live in. They've been told so many times that humans are superior to other animals and they think that superiority gives them the right to treat animals like unthinking, unfeeling objects. As soon as you start treating living beings as objects it's a slippery slope, after all, how high up the ladder is a baby compared to a dog, or cat? They had a possum throwing competition at a rural school near where I live, and the community was in an uproar about it. The principal tried to defend the schools actions by saying that they were rural kids, who dealt with death, and threw slinks into trucks all the time. The difference he failed to see, is one is a necessity (not that I agree with that particular part of farming here now I know about the UK method), the other was a game. Making entertainment from the dead bodies of an animal is not cool. I would like to pose the question to him, what if it was a cat, or a dog? Just because the possum is a 'pest' species, does not mean that you can treat it's dead body with such malicious disrespect. ....sorry....I get all worked up about things like that.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:27 pm
I have a high respect for life. I feel that the religious tenants of my faith also have a respect that doesn't seem to reflect in those who claim Christianity as their own.
I don't even kill spiders in my house if they are not threatening and I can relocate them to a more appropriate environment in the back yard. If they are poisonous, I do kill them, and I even feel regret doing that sometimes.
Anyway, I do eat meat, but I try to ensure that the animal in question was raised in an appropriate environment. I also know that around here, where slaughterhouses abound, lots of new measures are being incorporated to ensure animals that go through there were raised humanely, and that death is quick and painless as possible. I am not saying that everything is well, but I wanted to point out that as long as people continue to raise their awareness on such things, improvements will continue to be made.
I grew up in a family of hunters, and I was the pride of my dad, as I was a crack-shot, but I have never killed anything with a rifle because I was always worried that I might miss the mark and make something suffer. Our family uses everything we can of any kills brought in, it helps offset the crazy prices in the markets now. Our area also has a problem with deer especially, so in a way, I see the activity as helping to promote healthy populations, instead of unhealthy over-populations we have had in the last few years.
I don't agree with animal testing of cosmetics in any way. Humans have a unique Ph balance that won't be matched by any animals, so the point is pretty much moot anyway. If a company is worried about how color or texture may translate through a medium, they might as well pay a person a few dollars to test it instead of paying for daily food for the hapless animal test subject.
I do believe there is an important place for animals in Scientific and medical testing, but I will agree that it is a bit frivolous the way medical and drug testing go about their business. I think there should be a bit more respect given to the animals who go through hell to help humanity have a better life. There is a beginning of awareness in those areas that should be nurtured though, if we are to see significant changes take hold for good.
Animal cruelty is uncalled for, and I am talking about the senseless infliction of pain and abuse, or neglect. I will also say that sometimes killing an animal is better than letting it die a worse death.
In the case of your husband, I wouldn't dwell on what happened. He obviously feels guilty that the dog died the way it did, since he felt the need to tell you about it. Whether he was the one who killed it, or whether he holds himself accountable for allowing it to happen that way. He has allot to deal with as it is. I can tell you that death on a runway is a horrible way to go. I grew up on an airstrip, and I have witnessed a few animals deaths by moving aircraft, and it isn't always just the animals who get hurt. If the dog kept coming back, then sooner or later he would fall victim and probably end up hurting people too.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:35 pm
Aakosir Old Man Ryver What do you mean by "killing animals"? I mean, do you mean all animals, or just those animals in which aren't human? Because it's natural for species to fight against another species (we call it the Predator-Prey Effect or [in some instants] parasitism). For example: The wolf eats the rabbit for food. The tick sucks the human's blood for food. The human hunts the deer for food and entertainment. Entertainment is a personality requirement that specific species, like humans and dolphins, need for social and mental health. This is why killing animals for entertainment can be a good thing. Though, I don't agree with killing any animal unless we are required to. Now, with your story of your Husband in a middle-eastern country killing a dog, perhaps they didn't have a gun and the dog really was rabid? Maybe the canine left them no chose. The only time I justify killing ANY animal (humans included) is for two things: :- Food :- Self Defense He's a Marine...
And I am talking about humans killing animals. We do not need to kill like lions and wolves do. We can go to the grocery store and get our food. Killing for sport is wrong... To me.Humans ARE animals, which is why the example works. And why? Have you ever spent an hour or two thinking why you think anything is right or wrong? If you think about it, several animals kill for entertainment. Cats, for example, will kill a squirrel and let it rot at your doorstep. Why? Because cats have the same feeling of excitement that we do. It's like running in a race: your adrenaline is pumping, your competitive instincts emerge, and you have a feeling of excitement, a rush, if you will. That is, supposedly, what occurs during hunting. We hunt deer because we get adrenaline from "the chase", which is also why people murder other peoples. We want the feeling of excitement. It's completely instinctual to want that feeling.
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:00 am
Old Man Ryver Aakosir Old Man Ryver What do you mean by "killing animals"? I mean, do you mean all animals, or just those animals in which aren't human? Because it's natural for species to fight against another species (we call it the Predator-Prey Effect or [in some instants] parasitism). For example: The wolf eats the rabbit for food. The tick sucks the human's blood for food. The human hunts the deer for food and entertainment. Entertainment is a personality requirement that specific species, like humans and dolphins, need for social and mental health. This is why killing animals for entertainment can be a good thing. Though, I don't agree with killing any animal unless we are required to. Now, with your story of your Husband in a middle-eastern country killing a dog, perhaps they didn't have a gun and the dog really was rabid? Maybe the canine left them no chose. The only time I justify killing ANY animal (humans included) is for two things: :- Food :- Self Defense He's a Marine...
And I am talking about humans killing animals. We do not need to kill like lions and wolves do. We can go to the grocery store and get our food. Killing for sport is wrong... To me.Humans ARE animals, which is why the example works. And why? Have you ever spent an hour or two thinking why you think anything is right or wrong? If you think about it, several animals kill for entertainment. Cats, for example, will kill a squirrel and let it rot at your doorstep. Why? Because cats have the same feeling of excitement that we do. It's like running in a race: your adrenaline is pumping, your competitive instincts emerge, and you have a feeling of excitement, a rush, if you will. That is, supposedly, what occurs during hunting. We hunt deer because we get adrenaline from "the chase", which is also why people murder other peoples. We want the feeling of excitement. It's completely instinctual to want that feeling. Humans have a sense of what is right and what is wrong. We rarely pay attention to our instincts anymore. Animals are still primal and they rely on instinct. Animals rarely waste life. If they kill for entertainment the carcas is left to something else to eat. If humans kill for entertainment they rarely think about giving the rest to the animals, unless they toss it in some body of water so they do not attract more animals. Yea, it seems contradicting, but humans have the whole "I'll kill you then get rid of you so I do not attract unwanted attention". Animals "I'll kill you and leave you to whatever wants you, while I go in search of something else to eat."
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:16 am
I don't like to kill bugs, but a palmetto bug {it looks like a roach} ran in to our house the other day. I just about killed it because I do NOT like roaches. But it wasn't and it got flung back outside. There is currently a black widow in our laundry room. She lives in the exhaust fan for the dryer {we don't have a washer and dryer yet}. So I just take down her web. But I want to catch her and toss her outside. I do not want my daughter getting bit by her. I was talking about her with someone and they told me to get this wasp spray. I said "No." I'm not going to kill her just because she is alive. I will just relocate her. And the deer overpopulation was a problem in my hometown. I am okay with hunting to restore order. There were over 100 deer in 50 acres. That's a lot. And you had to question the health of that 50 acres. Becuase there are other creatures living there. Animal testing is a no no still... They are not humans. And I believe I said in an earlier post that there are people willing to try the product for some payment.
That possum throwing thing just pissed me off. It is uncalled for. I was watching a documentary and the lady was in New Orleans. They were muskrat hunting because they had been reproducing a lot. So they shot them with a gun {okay} and the clean up crew came out with a pitch fork! What the hell! How disrespectful! I was mad. And the repoter left them like two seconds after that. She was upset. Even when my cats are playing with a dead animal I try to get it away from them. One, it's just sadistic. And two, I do not want them leaving it under something. So most of the time it ends up in the weeds nextdoor. My cat brought back a chipmunk the other day... Aren't they endangered? I don't see too many of them, but my cats obviously do... And the whole helicopter hunting and chaining an animal... Pisses me off. I hate Palin because she supports the helicopter hunting. How heartless is that. The poor animal runs till it is almost dead from exersion then you shoot it. It's terrified and half dead already from being chased... But I have to throw in my hypocritical view of fur. I love to feel fur in the stores, but I will not buy it unless it is rabbit. Minx, never. I will pet the poor thing, but I will never buy it. My friend has a fox pelt and I often pet it. I don't know why they killed a fox, but I kind of feel like I am honoring its death by petting it. I'm weird. I know.
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