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9 reasons abortion is legal.

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A Darker Fantasy

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:47 pm


This was a thread in the GD, and this was my response;

A Darker Fantasy
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1. Laws against abortion kill women.
To prohibit abortions does not stop them. When women feel it is absolutely necessary, they will choose to have abortions--even in secret, without medical care, in dangerous circumstances. In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly 1 million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.

well, if we're going by that logic, we should legalize drugs because people will use them illegally because they feel they absolutely need them(addiction). This will benefit us, because people die from transmitted diseases from sharing needles. If we legalize drug use, then people won't die from using dirty needles anymore.

To say "keep abortion legal" because women will just perform abortions illegally is an invalid argument. ANYTHING that's illegal will still be done illegally, no matter how dangerous. Women performing illegal abortions aren't an exception, and they should be treated like criminals for breaking the law, because they did just that...they broke the law. Being treated badly like a criminal is just how the court system is going to tell you, "Don't do it again."

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2. Legal abortions protect women's health.
Legal abortion not only protects women's lives, it also protects their health. For tens of thousands of women with heart disease, kidney disease, severe hypertension, sickle-cell anemia and severe diabetes and other illnesses that can be life-threatening, the availability of legal abortion has helped avert serious medical complications that could have resulted from childbirth. Before legal abortion, such women's choices were limited to dangerous illegal abortion or dangerous childbirth.


Abortions themselves are a health risk. 1 in 100 women who perform early term abortions are subject to serious complications, and 1 in 50 women who perform late term abortions are as well. These serious complications include, but aren't limited to, damage to major or minor organs, perforation of the uterus, damaged cervix, death.

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3. A woman is more than a fetus.
There's an argument these days that a fetus is a "person" that is "indistinguishable from the rest of us," and that it deserves rights equal to women's. On this question, there is a tremendous spectrum of religious, philosophical, scientific and medical opinion. It's been argued for centuries. Fortunately, our society has recognized that each woman must be able to make this decision, based on her own conscience. To impose a law defining a fetus as a "person," granting it rights equal to or superior to a woman's--a thinking, feeling, conscious human being--is arrogant and absurd. It only serves to diminish women.


A fetus can feel pain by 8 weeks into the pregnancy. This is because the Thalamus, which is a part of the brain that tells us to react to pain, has already been developed. We know this because in ultrasounds, a fetus' reaction to the needle is to flinch away and open their mouths as if to cry. Also, there are changes in heart rate and fetal movement that shows that it feels the pain. The fetus has a heartbeat that starts at 22 days old. "The body of the unborn baby is more complex than ours. The preborn baby has several extra parts to his body which he needs only so long as he lives inside his mother. He has his own space capsule, the amniotic sac. He has his own lifeline, the umbilical cord, and he has his own root system, the placenta. These all belong to the baby himself, not to his mother. They are all developed from his original cell.
The fetus shows signs of thinking and emotion, too. When humans contemplate moving, their heart rate accelerates several seconds before the act. It's the same process with a fetus, their heart rate accelerates several seconds before it kicks, moves or wiggles.
A baby can also supposedly sense and feel emotions in the mother. The emotional side of a fetus is believable, in my personal opinion, but still questionable so I won't go far into detail with that one.

Shining a light on a woman's uterus will cause the baby to shield it's eyes. Playing loud music will cause it to cover it's ears. All of this was observed in ultrasounds, which show that children in the womb do have consciousness.
So yes, a fetus is thinking, feeling and conscious.


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4. Being a mother is just one option for women.

Many hard battles have been fought to win political and economic equality for women. These gains will not be worth much if reproductive choice is denied. To be able to choose a safe, legal abortion makes many other options possible. Otherwise an accident or a rape can end a woman's economic and personal freedom.


Well a rape abortion will be all fine and dandy, if it weren't for the fact that 98% of abortions aren't for rape, and only 30% of those are for economic reasons. Still, the government helps single mothers out. There is welfare for women with children, there is child support. A woman can still go to college (there is financial aid for women with children), she can still find a great job and prosper. She can still have economic choices. She still has personal freedom. But that freedom comes with an extra dose of responsibility.

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5. Outlawing abortion is discriminatory.
Anti-abortion laws discriminate against low-income women, who are driven to dangerous self-induced or back-alley abortions. That is all they can afford. But the rich can travel wherever necessary to obtain a safe abortion.


As I said, the government is more than willing to help a pregnant women. There are support groups. There is help.
A woman who performs an abortion on herself or allows someone else who is not certified to perform an abortion is stupid and reckless and disregardful of her own body and health. Politicians who outlaw abortion are not doing to so harm women, but to protect life of the innocent. It is the women themselves who are willing to put their health's in jeopardy because they feel it's worth the risk.

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6. Compulsory pregnancy laws are incompatible with a free society.

If there is any matter which is personal and private, then pregnancy is it. There can be no more extreme invasion of privacy than requiring a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. If government is permitted to compel a woman to bear a child, where will government stop? The concept is morally repugnant. It violates traditional American ideas of individual rights and freedoms.


I fail to see how this is an invasion of privacy. A woman isn't forced to get pregnant (rape pregnancies are at only .05%, mind you). Therefor, she isn't forced to carry a child. The government isn't forcing you to do anything, except finding a different solution other than abortion.

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7. Outlaw abortion, and more children will bear children.

Forty percent of 14-year-old girls will become pregnant before they turn 20. This could happen to your daughter or someone else close to you. Here are the critical questions: Should the penalty for lack of knowledge or even for a moment's carelessness be enforced pregnancy and child-rearing? Or dangerous illegal abortion? Should we consign a teenager to a life sentence of joblessness, hopelessness and dependency?


As I said, there is financial aid for young women with children. They aren't hopeless. A teenager is going to face the responsibility of raising a child and start being careful. She has support from many non-profit organizations, both pro-life and pro-choice(because even though our views differ, no matter what, both sides do want what's best for these women!), from family and friends. It's all a matter of responsibility and growing up.
Also, if abortions were outlawed, society would be forced to take on a more conservative view on sex and pregnancies and educating the younger generation on the hardships of pregnancies, and self respect for their own bodies.

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8. "Every child a wanted child."
If women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, the result is unwanted children. Everyone knows they are among society's most tragic cases, often uncared-for, unloved, brutalized and abandoned. When they grow up, these children are often seriously disadvantaged, and sometimes inclined to brutal behavior toward others. This is not good for children, for families or for the country. Children need love and families who want and will care for them.


In many cases for unwanted pregnancies, someone in the family is willing to take on a "God father" or a "God mother" role. I know those terms are used for baptisms and such, but I don't use those terms religiously(my family practically fought over me...lol!).
Also, there are many couples who are awaiting to adopt babies. Many children who end up in a home and end up staying there till adulthood are children who were older, while most couples waiting to adopt want infants. Waiting until a child is older and deciding that you are incapable as a parent is doing more harm to the child, because not only have you left an imprint on it's life, it will end up in a home for longer than it would if it was given up from the beginning.

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9. Choice is good for families.
Even when precautions are taken, accidents can and do happen. For some families, this is not a problem.But for others, such an event can be catastrophic. An unintended pregnancy can increase tensions, disrupt stability and push people below the line of economic survival. Family planning is the answer. All options must be open. At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society. Should women make their own decisions about family, career and how to live their lives? Or should government do that for them? Do women have the option of deciding when or whether to have children? Or is that a government decision?


The government isn't making decisions for women. The government is readily available for welfare. The government is readily available to give you what you need to live and the baby. The government doesn't make decisions for you. There are still choices for a career and a life.

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/unplannedpregnancy/possiblesideeffects.html

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp#By 8 weeks? Show me!

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,9851,00.html ...
[]


[] ...The only response I got was:

@A Darker Fantasy- Abortion facts is anti-abortion, so out the window. Please adopt every baby you find from a woman who aborts, even if it is too expensive, you can get help just like you said! You aren't too worried about the woman's expenses , you should not worry about your own, you can get help , you can do it! If you aren't willing to do this mind your own goddamn business and let women abort, it's not your body


i'm sorry, that made me lmao.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:01 pm


[] ...has anyone ever noticed that when you put up a good argument and place valid sources
pro-choicers don't like the sources you put so they attack those first? talk2hand

lol@them....
[]

A Darker Fantasy

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User_20392979

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:39 pm


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That is the reason why I stopped debating. I used facts, real medical facts and statistics and not only did they get ignored but I get bashed for posting them so I said "screw it, let them deal with their own ignorance if they don't want to listen and learn." and left it at that. Of course it's risking, anything that includes medications and surgery has risks and technically it's going against what nature intended so that also has risks and complications-like depression. The reason why many of them get depressed is because of the sudden changes of hormones.


...justice.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:31 pm


I would like to add an argument against the common fallacy that laws outlawing abortion discriminates against women. This is untrue. The law is in the perspective of the fetus, whose life is on the line, rather than the woman, whose comfort is on the line. It is illegal for ANYONE to kill a fetus, man or woman, black or white, gay or straight. The fact that it is a woman who gets pregnant is irrelevant, because it's not about what a woman can do. It's about what ANYONE can do to a fetus- Rather, it's about the rights the fetus has.

divineseraph


thebluestchu

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:35 pm


"it's their body" "I thought you were killing the fetus, not the woman."
Their main argument, GONE! ninja
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:09 pm


The thing about that argument that fails is that the fetus is a human as well and has it's own body and life (grated that it is still developing) and abortion isn't just dealing with the mother's body but destroying and taking awhile the body of someone else technically. So no, it isn't really their body.

Actually if someone kills a pregnant women, it would be considered a double homicide. That there shows that the law counts the fetus as a living human being as well. And it isn't about discriminating woman as divineseraph said, it is about the life that is on the line.

That is why debates fail, they seem to forget about biology and how it works and what is considered a living human being and just focus about just themselves and comfort. Fetus is Latin for unborn child/offspring.

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FragmentedTear

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:36 pm


This thread is inspirational. The arguments made are astounding against the afformative are truly thought provoking and I can't wait to use what I've learned.
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