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 Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:32 am
I was just a joyful witness to my co-worker ripping into one of our people ... everything this guy does, he claims it's what God wants. Frequently, what "God wants" is the exact opposite of what he's supposed to be doing at any given time. My partner pointed out that this guy is just using God to excuse doing whatever he wants.
And it got me to thinking. Obviously, "G-d d--n!" is taking God's name in vain, but ... could we honestly say that "using God for an excuse" is also taking His name in vain? Is it a form of blasphemy?
(Oh, and for those who are upset with my example ... I did censor it, and I'm saying it in the same general context as 1 Corinthians 12:3.)
Or what about groups who use the name of God for religions that ... well, aren't exactly what God wants? I'm thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses and Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, mostly, but there's plenty of others. Is "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof" a form of taking God's name in vain?
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:47 am
alright, here are the cards... There fore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 (NIV)
blas·phe·my1. impious (meaning disrespectful) utterance or action concerning God or sacred things. 2. Judaism.a. an act of cursing or reviling God. b. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai. 3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God. 4. irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc.: He uttered blasphemies against life itself. definitions courtesy of http://dictionary.reference.com (nope, not promoting the site..just too lazy to look it up on the dictionary at the shelf xd ) well for me, though he doesn't curse God, definition numbers 1 and 4 kinda still applies..If someone says "hey man this is what God wants" and really mean it and is sure that it really is what God wants then obviously it is not disrespect...as for your co-worker, using God's name even it's the very opposite of what he's supposed to do is in itself, a disrespect, and irreverent. because God will not tell us to do something that is not according to the Bible and not inline with His Will...so...technically speaking, according to definition numbers 1 and 4...it can be called blasphemy..(unless your co-worker has really no common sense to differentiate right from wrong but i don't think that's the case..) but...even if i don't look at a dictionary..i know blasphemy is cursing or badmouthing God or claiming to be God...so i think blasphemy is a word too heavy for that...because he doesn't curse and he doesn't claim to be God... for those groups you've mentioned, yes, they maybe swerving against biblical principles but some are really sincere and dearly believe that the values they hold are true...maybe it is blasphemy, to us who accept the full power of the Holy Trinity...but to them, they do not understand that. they are sincere...but they do not know and they do not understand... so they do not know what they are committing...it's up to God to judge them... but as hard as i might try to think, "blasphemy" is a word abominable and of heavy impact and essence for me so i guess i just can't really directly use the word at any case, (that's why i add words such as "maybe" and "can") because for me, i think i'll sound like... *echoes in a loud and thunderous voice.. "IT'S BLASPHEMY!!!" or something like that. blaugh oh dear...here i go again...being carried away by making long posts... sweatdrop sorry...just sharing my view... sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:06 am
Hey, I like long posts. Keep it up, and thanks. As for your arguments, I'll only say this: Aishin Mikomi (unless your co-worker has really no common sense to differentiate right from wrong but i don't think that's the case..) No, that probably is the case. In my department, that's almost a requirement for entry. Like you, I consider it "blasphemy", but it's of a level that's hard to attack (in the co-worker case, that is). Living in the US with our freedom of religion, and wanting to keep that freedom for myself, makes it hard for me personally to tell anybody to quit the phony preaching and get to work.
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:37 am
I believe using God as an excuse for anything is blasphemy. I mean, James 1:13 declares: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man (KJV).
Some religion take what God has ordered too specific. Just take some sects who refuse blood transfusion because they believe God commanded them in Leviticus 17:14 : For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. (KJV)
BUT that is taken out of context, and thus a person might be healed but the sect members say that is against God. God is in the healing business, and HE works through people. Yet those people use God as an excuse to hold on to their doctrine, which is blasphemy.
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:49 am
Dragonbait Hey, I like long posts. Keep it up, and thanks. As for your arguments, I'll only say this: Aishin Mikomi (unless your co-worker has really no common sense to differentiate right from wrong but i don't think that's the case..) No, that probably is the case. In my department, that's almost a requirement for entry. Like you, I consider it "blasphemy", but it's of a level that's hard to attack (in the co-worker case, that is). Living in the US with our freedom of religion, and wanting to keep that freedom for myself, makes it hard for me personally to tell anybody to quit the phony preaching and get to work. thank you very much! ^__^ no...what i meant is that i know that your co-worker is not stupid for him not to differentiate right from wrong...so...just as your partner said, and since it is almost a requirement for entry to your department, then i guess he's just really probably making excuses to do whatever he wants... and true...it's very hard to just declare "blasphemy" on someone especially that on our average daily co-worker; though we live in countries with freedom of religion...i've met some people who are like that and to me...well...they're annoying..
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:55 am
DSHW I believe using God as an excuse for anything is blasphemy. I mean, James 1:13 declares: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man (KJV). Some religion take what God has ordered too specific. Just take some sects who refuse blood transfusion because they believe God commanded them in Leviticus 17:14 : For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. (KJV) BUT that is taken out of context, and thus a person might be healed but the sect members say that is against God. God is in the healing business, and HE works through people. Yet those people use God as an excuse to hold on to their doctrine, which is blasphemy. awww well..true...maybe i just can't say the word itself DIRECTLY to the point! xd but like i said on my previous post...some are really very sincere about their doctrine that they do not even know and understand the real truth and what they are committing..though we know that such actions like...not donating blood or the like even though we know that it saves lives and a vital part of healing, doesn't please God, that very action is what they hold as true though we know that it is obviously not...perhaps God, on judgment day, will have His way of looking into the intents of their hearts maybe?...and judge them through those?
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:15 am
I know there's other groups with the same practice (regarding transfusions), but the Jehovah's Witnesses are the most famous ... using that very verse, and ignoring the word "eat" involved there.
Aishin, I think I misspoke. A lack of common sense is required to work under me. I'm a supervisor at a work-rehab facility. So, the idea that this guy lacks common sense is quite feasible ... but I try not to judge people based on how stupid they are. I know how stupid I am, and I don't want that standard held against me.
As for sincerity, well ... the idea that "that we believe is more important than what we believe" never made much sense to me. Sincerely wrong is still wrong.
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:24 am
Dragonbait Aishin, I think I misspoke. A lack of common sense is required to work under me. I'm a supervisor at a work-rehab facility. So, the idea that this guy lacks common sense is quite feasible ... but I try not to judge people based on how stupid they are. I know how stupid I am, and I don't want that standard held against me. As for sincerity, well ... the idea that " that we believe is more important than what we believe" never made much sense to me. Sincerely wrong is still wrong. as for the common sense, well, all i can say is... eek i'm quiet speechless... and well...sincerely wrong...i think you have a point...oh yeah..i remember i've read something in a devotional journal about that... explaining why "sincerely wrong" is still wrong...nice.. ^__^
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:07 pm
I would say it is! Going by the definition, which was provided, it very well fits in the category. Saying such a thing definitely does blasphemy His name. This person sounds like a real weirdo to me. Many people have used this as a excuse to do whatever is it is they want, and many people don't want to say anything against them in fear that God is actually a reason for the action. I mean, someone can say that they are going to kill 20 innocent hobos, all because he says that God wants him to. Obviously they would be using God's name to fuel their evil desires. I think the concept would fit in with many situations, even ones that your co-worker has done. This complete misuse and slandering of His name is quite frankly blasphemy in my opinion.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:04 am
IMHO
Blasphemy according to the original language means:
1) slander, detraction( a lessening of reputation or esteem especially by envious, malicious, or petty criticism), speech injurious, to another's good name, belittling
2) impious(lacking in reverence or proper respect) and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty
From this we see that "blasphemy" is speech not actions. From each Biblical example that I could find (NT) the person (usually Jesus) was accused of "pretending" to be God, thus lessening God to the status of "mere mortal. The OT does give examples of cursing God, or complaining about what God has/has not done/given to people but the word "blasphemy is not used directly.
So.....I guess my question regarding your co-worker is: "Is what this guys is saying lessing the opinion of others concerning God or are they just seeing it as "stupidity"? For instance when I hear someone say G....d it in no way lessens God in my eyes, it only serves to show me that the person speaking has little knowledge of the God who's name He is using.
The Bible does make a distinction between "blasphemy towards God" and "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."
Matthew 12:31
And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
It appears that God will forgive us for blasphemy against Him directly but not against the Holy Spirit. So by implication that means that God will not forgive those who belittle, deny or make fun of the Spiritual Gifts, or do the same concerning the working of the Holy Spirit in an individual's life.
While I agree that your co-worker is showing little reverence toward God I'm not sure that it really constitutes "blasphemy" in the strictist sense as his motive (and the outcome) of his speech does nothing to lessen God in the eyes of those who hear it.
In any case, it is God and not you or I who will make the final decision concerning this man, and we are mmost certainly in error when we judge him.
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