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Charlie Day


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:45 pm


Love love LOVED the Dream Lord. He was completely fantastic. I loved seeing a different side of the Doctor, albeit incredibly depressing.

All around I really enjoyed the episode but it didn't really sit right with me that Amy only chose Rory because he died.

For one, she didn't really know which one was the reality, and making a decision to off yourself because the supposed love of your life just died was kind of brash seeing as his last request was for her to take care of the baby. Wouldn't any self-respecting mother (to be, even) want to live for their child? It seemed a little OOC for Amy. And the comment to the Doctor like "Then what is the purpose of you?" was really odd to me. I mean, I know she was really upset about Rory but turning it on the Doctor doesn't seem like a thing she'd do.

And damn that's with my 11/Amy shipper goggles off.
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:20 pm


For me that was the crux of the episode. What is the doctor to Amy? For all the unfortunate entanglements teased previously it was made very clear from the off the Doctor was turned into little more than a story by Amy. He's her imaginary friend and, as Rory put it, eventually we're all forced to grow up. This was a wake-up call to show Amy what'll probably happen if she gives herself over completely to the neverending fantasy world of the doctor's. Yes, he's amazing and wonderful and exciting...but he's not going to give her a real life at the end of the day. Just some pretty stories.

That's what I think she was calling him on at the end of the episode with her 'Then what is the purpose of you?'.

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:42 pm


Jettrick
For me that was the crux of the episode. What is the doctor to Amy? For all the unfortunate entanglements teased previously it was made very clear from the off the Doctor was turned into little more than a story by Amy. He's her imaginary friend and, as Rory put it, eventually we're all forced to grow up. This was a wake-up call to show Amy what'll probably happen if she gives herself over completely to the neverending fantasy world of the doctor's. Yes, he's amazing and wonderful and exciting...but he's not going to give her a real life at the end of the day. Just some pretty stories.

That's what I think she was calling him on at the end of the episode with her 'Then what is the purpose of you?'.


I tend to agree with this. As much as I like Amy, she can be fairly selfish, so I don't think it was out of character for her to commit suicide despite being pregnant. (For one thing, consider, did she ever once in the episode mention the baby's safety or how happy she was to be a mother? Nope. Not that I recall. She used her pregnancy to get the Doctor to do what she wants (consider when she fakes going into labor) and the rest of the time when her pregnancy is brought up, all she ever really does is talk about how she is not a boat. XD I don't mean this to be critical of Amy. I hate it when in fiction it's always assumed that as soon as a character becomes pregnant, they have to give up their own life and all their dreams and aspirations to be a mother. (Or... y'know... father.) People aren't perfect parents so characters don't have to be either.

Um... so where was I going with this. O_o Oh yes. Amy uses people. It's demonstrated repeatedly that she is perfectly comfortable ordering people around and doing things how she wants. I think it may be significant that all of RTD's main companions (Rose, Martha, and Donna--but not Jack, Mickey, etc.) parents and families figured very prominently. But we have not yet seen Aunt Sharon, who is the only parental or adult figure in Amy's life that we're aware of. Her life revolves around the Doctor and everyone in her village knows about the Raggedy Doctor. She has very much mythologized him into something more than a person. He is a character who should answer to her beck and call, and she does seem to believe she knows him intimately, when in fact she had only met him twice in her life, briefly, before she became a companion. She needed to learn he wasn't just a character or a thing to do what she wanted. He's a person, and sometimes he's going to fail. Would it seem normal for any reasonable person to ask any other reasonable person "What's the point of you?" Nope.

...And that ended up being quite a lot longer than I intended. Sorry.
sweatdrop
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:13 am


I think that we might be having the DreamLord return...

I mean, the Valeyard has to originate somehow.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:01 am


The one thing this episode really opened my eyes to is just how vulnerable a companion Amy is. Whereas before I was rather inclined to view her as a sterotypical selfish, sarcastic sassmonger who couldn't care less about cavorting across time and space with another man behind her fiancee's back this episode convinced me I've probably been wrong in being so quick to judge the poor lass.

Amy does do incredibly impulsive, selfish, things-but almost without exception they seem only to happen when she's pushed to desperation. Marriage terrifies her? She runs away. Worried she's going to lose her life to some ungodly alien monstrosity the next time she steps out the door? She snogs the doctor. Her one apparent chance at a happy and fulfilling life just crumbled to dust before her very eyes? Better believe she'd be willing to drive a campervan into a bunch of pensioners and go out in a pyrotechnic blaze of glory :/

What really got me was how quick the doctor was to jump in said campervan with her and give up his life, too. She's got her poncho boys well-trained, that Amy has.

On the question of having the Dreamlord back I say yes, yes-a thousand times yes! By far the most entertaining guest villain on the show since Anthony Head way back in season 2. Alas, I can't see how they could really justify bringing him back without some serious issues of plot redundancy. Ah, well. Sometimes these things must be sacrificed in the name of guilty pleasures ;D
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:18 am


I did not like this episode. The dream lord was interesting but the identity was to predictable. It was like he was standing around with a big placard with his name on it. the plot was poorly thought out. The monsters were lacking that is a plot hole the size of a truck. Why do they go out after the children? Why not attack the sleeping people in front of them?

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SaphiraStar

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:25 pm


I must say though, I liked the part where the Doctor was fighting to stay awake. I used to have nightmares about being chased by something while I'm dozing off.
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:37 am


I found that this episode was sort of me being on the fence. It was good in the sense that you get to see the Dark Side of the Doctor ( Spoiler: The Dream Lord is the Doctor's Dark Side)
But at the same time I find that they are focusing to much on Amy during this series.

Thowell3


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:53 am


Thowell3

But at the same time I find that they are focusing to much on Amy during this series.


See, that's what I dreaded when I first saw the episode title. Funny thing is, I don't think this episode was especially Amy-heavy in the end. She gets a few scenes of her own with the Dreamlord, sure, but other than that it's the combined interaction of the three main characters that made the episode sparkle. And there's plenty of doctor running around the place like a loon fighting off crazed pensioner alien action to go around, too.

Maybe the series is being played a little too much from *her* point of view. But then again hasn't that really been the trend for all series of new Who?
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:47 pm


[Swift]
I'll go ahead and be the first to say here that I thought this episode was ******** epic. The Dream Lord may be my new favorite villain. Not sure yet. Definitely will be giving this one a re-watch.


NOT a new villain, just much better take on the Valeyard (as someone's previous post mentioned).

Love to hate this ep--I mean, I enjoyed it, but now am depressed that in spite of the fact that he's now got the body of a 27-year-old to go running around in, inside the Doctor is apparently a bitter, miserable old man consumed by self-loathing and regret. Can we have a little fun here? This is a show about space whales and monsters with plungers for crissake, not a bloody soap opera!

Oh, and I think I'm starting to really hate Amy. First, she's a skank ho, trying to jump into the Doctor's trousers for "something less permanent" without even writing a "Dear Rory, truth is, I only loved you when I made you dress like the Doctor. You will always be second best. Good bye forever." letter. Second, all of you who say she's bossy and selfish are right. She really is. And she does seem to lack maternal feeling, which feels wrong to me personally. And on that note, I'm gonna log off and go play with my real daughter.

ThPriestess


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:01 pm


Uhhh. That episode made me think hard.

[Swift] - You just got about a million bonus points from me for linking to TV Tropes. I love that site, though it's such a time-consumer.

I figured the DreamLord must've been some version of the Doctor when Eleven said that there's only "one person that hates him that much". At the end of it all, the Doctor's the one constantly reminded of and living with his own decisions, and we know not only does he not like some of those choices, but he's reminded constantly about those that have died or consequences of his actions in the process. And how he gets to leave all of those problems behind after the day is saved.


About Amy... I saw the episode as ultimately making her choose between the Doctor and his lifestyle, or a life with Rory. I figured she'd ultimately pick the town and Rory as the reality (and thus her adventures with the Doctor are but a dream/escapist fantasy), but the manner in which she made her decision completely turned me over.

I'm not a 100% fan of Rory yet, but this episode is making me like him more.

It was definitely an amazing episode, plot/structure-wise. I'd love it if they had the Dreamlord come back later on (who else would be a suitable opponent of the Doctor than the Doctor himself? OHAI THERE VALEYARD) and I loved that it made my brain all twisty-turny.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a browser full of TV Tropes pages to go through. TGIF.
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:23 pm


Man, I really don't wanna double-post but this is another musing on an entirely different part of the episode that I don't wanna get jumbled up in my wall of text up there.

Also, don't you all start hating on me at once. I know better than to start a debate/dispute between fans about certain issues, but it has to be said. xp Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Angel

The way the Doctor reacted to Amy's pregnancy (imho partially stunned/confused): just for the LULZ of it all, or an insight by the writer on Timelord reproduction?

notice how I didn't say lungbarrow or looms once there

My first thought was immediately the latter, but now that I've looked up the writer (Simon Nye, and this is his first script for DW), I don't think he was thinking that hard when he wrote the scene. *sigh*

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:44 am


Okay, triple-posting now but I caught this during the BBCA airing.
This is a great episode with great rewatch value.

What the Dreamlord says to Eleven - it's how Eleven views himself, and what he hates in himself to admit. His companions eventually leave (or are left) once they've had their fun and "grown up". He prefers the company of the young, I believe, because they haven't quite lived their life yet and so they still have the innocence of youth in them that the Doctor now lacks. Perhaps he's somewhat living through them as well, seeing the universe through their eyes.

The Doctor now is compared to Peter Pan, another fairytale. (Hey, and he was Tinkerbell!Doctor a while ago, in the S3 finale. Hah. xd )
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