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 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:00 am
There was a Muslim I had talked with that said that "Allah can be with you but he cannot be within you". It was later asked if God is in all things then how can God not be within you? The person replied that it's written in the text that Allah can't be within you.
Could someone give the passage regarding this and possibly elaborate more on why this concept is forbidden?
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:12 am
This pickled vegetable...I know very little of the Muslim faith, but I can hazard a guess if you'd like...
I think it might have something to do with human's free will. "God is in all things" as so god must also have some measure of influence and control over those things. However, humans are given free will, the ability to defy "gods plan" and forge their own way in the world. It could be that "God is with you on your path, but he is not within you controlling your path."
Just a guess and I'm probably wrong. ... could kick your a** !!
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:09 am
This left me puzzled, so I went to more knowledgable Muslims than I and asked. I've only got 1 response so far, but it seems to be very good. I'll continue to post results I get ^^ Lonedreamers My favourite Surah answers this nicely. Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem
Qul Huw-Allahu Ahad
Allah-us-Samad
Lam yalid wl lam yulad
Wa lam yakul lahu kufuwan ahadIn the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.[Surah Ikhlas, 114, Holy Qur'an] Allah (swt) has created you, there is no comparison. If you imagine anything as being comparable to God, then that is not God. There is NOTHING like him. So if you imagine God within YOU, it strays away from the monotheistic principle of worshipping only one God. You have God's word (the Qur'an) God's messengers (peace be upon them all) and God's message, but having the actual Divine in you is not a monotheistic viewpoint and is not seen in any of the Abrahamic faiths because that idea that everything is God (thinking God residing within you) is pantheism. That's (pantheism) a view that the universe and God is alike. And there is none comparable unto Him. And Surah Al-Ikhlas denies it.
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:02 pm
From what I understand while pantheism is not in any of the Abrahamic faiths, panentheism which I am describing here (or at least I think I am O.o) is at least allowable in Judaism and Christianity.
Thank you for that quote Apple. Is this passage normally used in response to panentheism arguments within Islam or this a modern interpretation to keep panentheism from being introduced into Islam?
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:05 pm
In Islam, nothing can be held in comparison to Allah because He is so powerful, superior, etc.
When you say that God is in you, that's in a way saying that you are comparable to God or you are God.
Same with the almost mystical view that God's, for lack of a better word, energy flows through everything. I think, and this is where I could be off, God controls everything. He created everything. But He is not literally everything. Because again you would be comparing those things to God.
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:11 pm
rmcdra From what I understand while pantheism is not in any of the Abrahamic faiths, panentheism which I am describing here (or at least I think I am O.o) is at least allowable in Judaism and Christianity. Thank you for that quote Apple. Is this passage normally used in response to panentheism arguments within Islam or this a modern interpretation to keep panentheism from being introduced into Islam?
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:36 pm
brainnsoup rmcdra From what I understand while pantheism is not in any of the Abrahamic faiths, panentheism which I am describing here (or at least I think I am O.o) is at least allowable in Judaism and Christianity. Thank you for that quote Apple. Is this passage normally used in response to panentheism arguments within Islam or this a modern interpretation to keep panentheism from being introduced into Islam? It certainly is more common in the mystical Abrahamic traditions. I know panentheism is in Eastern and Oriential Orthodoxy and has been since it's foundation (part of the reason they broke from the Roman Catholic Church since denying this would deny theosis). I know panentheism is present in Jewish mysticism and has a history of it dating at least back to the 16th century. Sufis also seem to have something resembling panentheism but also from what I remember Apple telling me, Sufis aren't considered Islamic since many view them as adding to Islam.
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:14 pm
rmcdra From what I understand while pantheism is not in any of the Abrahamic faiths, panentheism which I am describing here (or at least I think I am O.o) is at least allowable in Judaism and Christianity. Thank you for that quote Apple. Is this passage normally used in response to panentheism arguments within Islam or this a modern interpretation to keep panentheism from being introduced into Islam? Pantheism is allowed in Christianity, and i never thought about its absence in Islam until you asked this question, haha >< As for the second question, I dont feel comfortable just making a guess. The person I quoted, is a member of Gaia. If you're not getting what you want here, you can PM her - she's very nice and knowledgeable in Islam. I'm still learning :/
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