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Hiranyagarbha = Elohim / Allah
  Yes, Absolutly
  Maby, Probably
  Maby (Fifty-Fifty)
  Maby (Probably not)
  NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
  God dosent exist, so the question is invalid...
  IDK
  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Mau Aita Dirac

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:40 pm


----KJV: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/index.htm
----Rig Veda English: http://sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/index.htm
----I can't read Hebrew or Sanskrit, but I have oft argued that the Monotheistic God of the Rigveda (हिरण्यगर्भः) and the God of Abraham (אֱלהִים / الله / بهاء / God) are the same God, it is just that people hold differing belifes about that God, so I use the english versions of the scriptures to argue my point...
----Anyone want to tell me what they think of this theory?
----or give us some good jokes,
----Genesis 1:2
‎‏וְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָיְתָ֥ה תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם׃
----Daniel 11:36
‏וְעָשָׂ֨ה כִרְצוֹנ֜וֹ הַמֶּ֗לֶךְ וְיִתְרוֹמֵ֤ם וְיִתְגַּדֵּל֙ עַל־כָּל־אֵ֔ל וְעַל֙ אֵ֣ל אֵלִ֔ים יְדַבֵּ֖ר נִפְלָא֑וֹת וְהִצְלִ֙יחַ֙ עַד־כָּ֣לָה זַ֔עַם כִּ֥י נֶחֱרָצָ֖ה נֶעֱשָֽׂתָה׃
----Rigveda 10:129
नासदासीन नो सदासीत तदानीं नासीद रजो नो वयोमापरो यत |
किमावरीवः कुह कस्य शर्मन्नम्भः किमासीद गहनं गभीरम ||
न मर्त्युरासीदम्र्तं न तर्हि न रात्र्या अह्न आसीत्प्रकेतः |
आनीदवातं सवधया तदेकं तस्माद्धान्यन न परः किं चनास ||
तम आसीत तमसा गूळमग्रे.अप्रकेतं सलिलं सर्वमािदम |
तुछ्येनाभ्वपिहितं यदासीत तपसस्तन्महिनाजायतैकम ||
कामस्तदग्रे समवर्तताधि मनसो रेतः परथमं यदासीत |
सतो बन्धुमसति निरविन्दन हर्दि परतीष्याकवयो मनीषा ||
तिरश्चीनो विततो रश्मिरेषामधः सविदासी.अ.अ.अत |
रेतोधाासन महिमान आसन सवधा अवस्तात परयतिः परस्तात ||
को अद्धा वेद क इह पर वोचत कुत आजाता कुत इयंविस्र्ष्टिः |
अर्वाग देवा अस्य विसर्जनेनाथा को वेद यताबभूव ||
इयं विस्र्ष्टिर्यत आबभूव यदि वा दधे यदि वा न |
यो अस्याध्यक्षः परमे वयोमन सो अङग वेद यदि वा नवेद ||
----Rigveda 10:121
हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेकासीत |
स दाधार पर्थिवीं दयामुतेमां कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ||
य आत्मदा बलदा यस्य विश्व उपासते परशिषं यस्यदेवाः |
यस्य छायाम्र्तं यस्य मर्त्युः कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ||
यः पराणतो निमिषतो महित्वैक इद राजा जगतो बभूव |
य ईशे अस्य दविपदश्चतुष्पदः कस्मै देवाय हविषाविधेम ||
यस्येमे हिमवन्तो महित्वा यस्य समुद्रं रसया सहाहुः |
यस्येमाः परदिशो यस्य बाहू कस्मै देवाय हविषाविधेम ||
येन दयौरुग्रा पर्थिवी च दर्ळ्हा येन सव सतभितं येननाकः |
यो अन्तरिक्षे रजसो विमानः कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ||
यं करन्दसी अवसा तस्तभाने अभ्यैक्षेतां मनसारेजमाने |
यत्राधि सूर उदितो विभाति कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ||
आपो ह यद बर्हतीर्विश्वमायन गर्भं दधानाजनयन्तीरग्निम |
ततो देवानां समवर्ततासुरेकःकस्मै देवाय हविषा विधेम ||
यश्चिदापो महिना पर्यपश्यद दक्षं दधानाजनयन्तीर्यज्ञम |
यो देवेष्वधि देव एक आसीत कस्मैदेवाय हविषा विधेम ||
मा नो हिंसीज्जनिता यः पर्थिव्या यो वा दिवंसत्यधर्मा जजान |
यश्चापश्चन्द्रा बर्हतीर्जजानकस्मै देवाय हविषा विधेम ||
परजापते न तवदेतान्यन्यो विश्वा जातानि परि ताबभूव |
यत्कामास्ते जुहुमस्तन नो अस्तु वयं सयाम पतयोरयीणाम ||
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:10 pm


Rig Veda = Book of Hinduism
Hinduism = Polytheistic

Right? sweatdrop

Call Me Apple

Sparkly Shapeshifter


Mau Aita Dirac

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:44 pm


----no, in the tenth book hymn 121 of the rigveda is clearly mentioned a single God, Lord of Men and cattle, and god of all all Devas (Literally "illuminous beings" though traditionally Translated as "God"), the name mentioned for that God is Hiranyagarbha...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:34 pm


Mau Aita Dirac
----no, in the tenth book hymn 121 of the rigveda is clearly mentioned a single God, Lord of Men and cattle, and god of all all Devas (Literally "illuminous beings" though traditionally Translated as "God"),
Brahman maybe? Brahman is the Hindu God that most westerners would consider a God (with a capital G).
And I think that the reason cows are important in Hinduism is because his avatar raised cattle. I might be wrong...
I can't read Sanskrit or Hebrew. But I know quite a few people that will argue that pretty much all Gods are the same God. And that polytheistic religions or ones with lesser deities only have gods for different aspects of God.
But I don't believe in any of them, so what do I know? XD

brainnsoup
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rmcdra

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:55 pm


@brainnnsoup

What you are describing is soft polytheism, the idea that all Gods are God. It is quite popular but it has it's issue such as if all Gods are God then why would a God rape themselves or why would a God kill themselves. It also relies on ethnocentric stance that all archetypes cross culturally are exactly the same but that's not necessarily true.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:02 pm


@OP

What about the two deities nature do they have in common? Are there any differences in the beings nature? what descriptions do they have in common? What descriptions do they not have in common?

If you are wanting to argue that they are the same examine what makes theses Gods different in personality and nature and see if the differences have to do with the culture or with beings in question.

rmcdra

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:09 pm


While you driving in India be sure to hit a cow crossing the street. Make sure you hit it with enough force that it will die. When everyone gathers around, jump on top of the cow and shout as loud as you can, "BEEF IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER!". Everyone will laugh.j/k you will be deported and asked not to return. One of my teachers hit a cow by accident (crappy brakes he claimed). He had never seen so many people pissed over one dead cow.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:26 pm


rmcdra
@brainnnsoup

What you are describing is soft polytheism, the idea that all Gods are God. It is quite popular but it has it's issue such as if all Gods are God then why would a God rape themselves or why would a God kill themselves. It also relies on ethnocentric stance that all archetypes cross culturally are exactly the same but that's not necessarily true.
Not necessarily. I've always assumed that part of the belief is that myths about the gods' actions aren't taken literally.
And I've always assumed that to believe this, one has to recognized that God's personality (in other religion and even one's own) is at least partially cultural values projected onto its God. But that we (or, I guess they) all worship the same God in essence, but just argue over the minor details.
But then again, I only assume this because of the obvious flaws in claiming that all gods literally exist as the culture says they do and are the same God. No one's ever actually explained it to me in detail.

brainnsoup
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brainnsoup
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:29 pm


rmcdra
While you driving in India be sure to hit a cow crossing the street. Make sure you hit it with enough force that it will die. When everyone gathers around, jump on top of the cow and shout as loud as you can, "BEEF IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER!". Everyone will laugh.j/k you will be deported and asked not to return. One of my teachers hit a cow by accident (crappy brakes he claimed). He had never seen so many people pissed over one dead cow.
Bonus points for smashing idols!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:44 pm


brainnsoup
Not necessarily. I've always assumed that part of the belief is that myths about the gods' actions aren't taken literally.
While that is the case the difference lies in individuation. In a soft polytheism the beings in the myths are not individuals but the same person wearing different masks, where as in a hard polytheism the beings are unique individuals.

Quote:
And I've always assumed that to believe this, one has to recognized that God's personality (in other religion and even one's own) is at least partially cultural values projected onto its God. But that we (or, I guess they) all worship the same God in essence, but just argue over the minor details.
Depends. If there is a tradition that a God or Gods made a particular culture then the view that is taught of a particular God or Gods is not one a projection. To discredit this you would have to somehow show that the people in question deviated from the standard for the culture that the God or Gods created for them.
To go a bit further if theists are all worshiping the same God then why would this God tell one group of people to sacrifice their king yearly to keep the sun alive, then tell another group of people that blood sacrifices are forbidden and not welcome? That's a bit more than minor details. Again you would have to show how such commands that are claimed to have come from a God or Gods are just projection of the culture and did not actually come from a God or Gods.

Quote:
But then again, I only assume this because of the obvious flaws in claiming that all gods literally exist as the culture says they do and are the same God. No one's ever actually explained it to me in detail.
Yeah soft polytheism does have obvious issues in that regard. I haven't heard any good defense regarding soft polytheism so I can't really contribute anything positive in it's defense.

rmcdra

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Debate/Discuss Judaism

 
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