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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:30 am
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ny-lawmaker-wants-presumed-498662.html
A bill has been introduced in New York to make "Presumed Consent" law. If this bill becomes law, it would be presumed by doctors that you give permission for your organs to be donated at death UNLESS you carry a signed statement that states you do not want to donate.
To me, this is wrong on so many levels that I can't begin to list them all!
What do you think?
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:52 am
I'm an organ donor.
Theoretically.
I don't have some kind of ancient Egyptian belief that my body will be revived in the land across the spiritual Nile river, to live as a god, with Osiris.
That would be silly.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:05 am
I think it's a good way to get organs, but it's not exactly right to go about it in that way.
Personally I think we could easily have lab grown organs by now if there was more effort being made in that area and more money being spent on research. The supposed ethical issue concerning stem cells has probably delayed progress when it's certainly possible at this point. This is bad in my opinion. Science needs to keep moving forward.
I don't want to give my organs away and not because I'm going to need them once I'm dead, but because some overzealous doctors might pronounce me brain dead in order to get them. As a person who doesn't believe in an afterlife, I'm willing to stay on artificial support and wait for a cure for whatever is wrong rather than pull my plug so someone else can have my parts. Loads of people will disagree with that but it's my choice not to be a donor.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:59 am
It's not like you're needing those organs if you're dead...
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:47 pm
There is a real rush to harvest organs, especially from young, healthy people. Who's to say that your written statement not to harvest wouldn't just be lost? I see a real possibility of abuse. What if time on life support would see you heal and be fine ( I personally know a young man who was pronounced dead, whose parents refused to rush to unplug him---and he is fine, in college now).
I am searching to a link for a story about organ replacement in China, which tells of political prisoners organs being taken and sold. I'll post it when I find it.
Wouldn't it be possible to use this type of legislation to bypass all the stem-cell arguments, and simply use entire populations of "undesirables" as a huge stock of replacement parts? Legislation has a way of just marching on, without the consent of the governed, in many cases.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:56 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:06 pm
Actually, strangely enough, I never okay-ed being an organ donor... I was gonna, but they never asked, and when I got my permit it was there.
STRANGE STUFF.(Also illegal, but I didn't care, because I had planned to okay it.)
I think that one must have a certain faith in humanity, and that if I'm going to die, time is not that big of an issue. If I'm brain dead, I may as well be dead.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:19 pm
i wont give them an inch the goverment will most likely want more later, and theres most likely things hidden in the massive bill that are horrid
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:30 pm
[Kegan] Actually, strangely enough, I never okay-ed being an organ donor... I was gonna, but they never asked, and when I got my permit it was there. STRANGE STUFF.(Also illegal, but I didn't care, because I had planned to okay it.) I think that one must have a certain faith in humanity, and that if I'm going to die, time is not that big of an issue. If I'm brain dead, I may as well be dead. The question is, whether being declared brain-dead is really an indicator of life----and who makes that decision. The parents I'm speaking about decided to wait and see, and they have their son. So much is subjective, and there can be such pressure to save so many lives. I would argue that choosing to save many over saving just one is not always as clear-cut a decision as we have been taught to believe. One thing you learn as you grow older is that trust in the basic goodness of humanity is often a mistake. I'm guessing that the pressure to save many lives from one, and the added $$$$$ involved, would make theft and murder okay in lots of people's books. And it would truly make the doctors "god", deciding who lives and who dies. What a terrible position to be in----and how easily manipulated would doctors become? I'm sure there is lots of this already (ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN).....think where this could lead. I think organ donation is a wonderful thing. I just don't think anyone else should be able to make that decision for you, except perhaps your immediate family. We have all discussed this as a family, and decided long ago that there would be no quick decisions made by or for any family members. The government should have no part in this decision-----unless they gave you life in the first place.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:21 am
But if surrendering the minuscule chance of revival gives a near certain gift of life, is it not right? I guess we all just live in fear of or own mortality.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:26 am
I do live in fear of my own mortality. I've have my existence for 31 years and I've grown rather attached to it. If something could be done to prolong it I would like that chance and I am not about to leave it in the hands of the government to decide.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:04 am
[Kegan] But if surrendering the minuscule chance of revival gives a near certain gift of life, is it not right? I guess we all just live in fear of or own mortality. It isn't fear of death, for me. I do believe that life here, at this time and in this place, is just a mere blink of an eye in the face of eternity, that I will live on after I leave this earth, and learn and grow and experience things that I can't even begin to imagine now. So to leave this earth is, for me, entry into an even bigger adventure. For me, it's just enjoying what every day brings. Life is just as big an adventure as you choose to make it, and it's not all wonderful, but most of it can be, it's up to us what we do with each day. I don't think it's up to someone else to determine when my adventure ends, based upon the usefulness of the organs in my body to someone else. There is a man that lives around here somewhere that I see running almost every day as I run the "taxi service." He has a full head of white hair, and he runs several miles every day. I've seen him run when it's too hot, too wet, too cold and slippery-----he's out there, whatever the weather, running. I admire the fact that at an age when so many people just sit and do almost nothing, he decides to get up, put on his running shoes, and face the world. His very presence is inspiring to me. Would his life be more valuable "parted-out?" I don't think so. I'm sure his organs are good----they could save a body---but what value can you place on the inspiration that he is to the hundreds of people who drive past him, as I do? I hate to think that young, healthy people with their whole lives ahead of them could be so readily cheated of a long, full-of-adventure life. Maybe that "parts warehouse" has wonderful things to do, a huge contribution to make to this world! I'd hate to see any of YOU unplugged, just because someone makes the determination that 20 other lives are more valuable than yours. I would hate to see that life-or-death decision come down to a matter of dollars and cents, even more. That's a judgement call that can't be reliably made based on evidence, unless the doctors, etc., can see the future.
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:03 am
As one who works in a field that's chock-full of "undesirables" ( I work with the homeless), this bill scares the pants off me. What's to stop some money-minded Dr. Frankenstein from pronouncing someone dead merely to get a kidney? Especially if they fall into the "less than me" category. Further, there are those (I'm not one, btw) for whom donating organs is against their beliefs. No, this bill is NOT a good idea. I'm against. Gooid thing I don't live in New York, eh?
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:59 am
I'm glad not to live in New York myself....the problem is that once something like this gets passed anywhere, it seems to get pushed everywhere.
The first reason I posted this link was because I was just absolutely LIVID. The second reason was to remind everyone that there's more going on where politics is concerned than just an election every 2 years. Lots of what goes on in the state and federal legislatures never makes the news----and, for that matter, I know lots of people just don't keep up with the news, anyway. I encourage all of you to google your state government's website, and see what's going on. Tell your legislators, by email or phone, just what you think. Then check out the federal level, and do the same.
I know we're not all U.S. citizens in this guild, but lots of us are, and we need to know what the government is doing so we don't get an unpleasant surprise, like the organ harvest of someone we love without even receiving notification!
"Of the people, by the people, and for the people" means nothing unless "We, the people" are involved.
****steps down from soapbox****
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