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 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:03 pm
Just a random question, has Muhammad ever commented on this sort of thing? From reading this topic, I know he's said that he doesn't want to be depicted but has he ever said anything to those who threaten violence over his depiction?
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:01 pm
Saddest Shade of Kitsune @Chieftain, do you realize that without censorship, children would be corrupted? & there are people who don't want to see things that are disturbing & harmful to the mind. & how is it okay to take someone's faith & make a joke of it? Do you even understand what that implies if we stay silent? & freedom is not defined by degrading others. No one should be trying to bash others & yet most people don't even bother to try not to. -shakes head- Censorship has a purpose. & if your soul is crushed by not disrespecting another human's beliefs then I fear for your morals & values. V_V When people's attention is called to any topic on any of these shows, then people become interested to find out the truth of what these episodes are talking about. So why wouldn't anyone want to have this "publicity"? I would think that any group would want more people becoming interested in their cause. Mohammad, Jesus, and Buddah couldn't be anymore famous, but when people are researching them, even if it is because of a TV show, they are learning a bit more about the facts of the matter. If children are corrupted, it's the parents' fault for letting their children watch stuff that is not suitable for them. I don't even let my kids watch TV unless I have seen the show before or I am sitting down with them to watch what is happening. I don't care if people make fun of religions. Religion and faith are 2 separate things to me. You can't make fun of my faith, because my faith has nothing to do with you, or anyone else. Shows that take aim at a whole group are not making a personal attack at you, even if you claim that group as your own, so why in the hell would you want to take a joke so personally? I don't disrespect anyone's morals and values just because I watch a show that makes fun of such things. On the contrary, I hold others' faiths and beliefs in the highest esteem. I do notice hypocrisy, inconsistency, and stagnancy in many groups, and it seems to me that that is what is being made fun of, not the group itself. Maybe you should take time to understand why the writers of these shows can make fun of what they do, and get such a sympathetic audience. There is some absurdity in every religion, and if we just try to turn a blind eye to the BS in our own religions, then that BS is never gonna get fixed. On the contrary, it will just continue to get worse. The more absurdity in a religion the more people are going to ridicule it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:02 pm
Saddest Shade of Kitsune @Chieftain, do you realize that without censorship, children would be corrupted? & there are people who don't want to see things that are disturbing & harmful to the mind. & how is it okay to take someone's faith & make a joke of it? Do you even understand what that implies if we stay silent? & freedom is not defined by degrading others. No one should be trying to bash others & yet most people don't even bother to try not to. -shakes head- Censorship has a purpose. & if your soul is crushed by not disrespecting another human's beliefs then I fear for your morals & values. V_V if people don't wanna see it they should avert their eyes. >.> if people don't wanna hear it they should plug their ears. and children being corrupted? that's your argument? ******** that! xd rofl children are equally corrupted, and in other cases simply sheltered, BECAUSE of cnesorship! and that isn't healthy at all. i say again: ******** CENSORSHIP!! it is a screaning system that needs to be taken down. if someone wants to say or do something radical or controversial, LET THEM! if you don't like it, tough s**t.
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:39 pm
Eltanin Sadachbia Saddest Shade of Kitsune @Chieftain, do you realize that without censorship, children would be corrupted? & there are people who don't want to see things that are disturbing & harmful to the mind. & how is it okay to take someone's faith & make a joke of it? Do you even understand what that implies if we stay silent? & freedom is not defined by degrading others. No one should be trying to bash others & yet most people don't even bother to try not to. -shakes head- Censorship has a purpose. & if your soul is crushed by not disrespecting another human's beliefs then I fear for your morals & values. V_V When people's attention is called to any topic on any of these shows, then people become interested to find out the truth of what these episodes are talking about. So why wouldn't anyone want to have this "publicity"? I would think that any group would want more people becoming interested in their cause. Mohammad, Jesus, and Buddah couldn't be anymore famous, but when people are researching them, even if it is because of a TV show, they are learning a bit more about the facts of the matter. If children are corrupted, it's the parents' fault for letting their children watch stuff that is not suitable for them. I don't even let my kids watch TV unless I have seen the show before or I am sitting down with them to watch what is happening. I don't care if people make fun of religions. Religion and faith are 2 separate things to me. You can't make fun of my faith, because my faith has nothing to do with you, or anyone else. Shows that take aim at a whole group are not making a personal attack at you, even if you claim that group as your own, so why in the hell would you want to take a joke so personally? I don't disrespect anyone's morals and values just because I watch a show that makes fun of such things. On the contrary, I hold others' faiths and beliefs in the highest esteem. I do notice hypocrisy, inconsistency, and stagnancy in many groups, and it seems to me that that is what is being made fun of, not the group itself. Maybe you should take time to understand why the writers of these shows can make fun of what they do, and get such a sympathetic audience. There is some absurdity in every religion, and if we just try to turn a blind eye to the BS in our own religions, then that BS is never gonna get fixed. On the contrary, it will just continue to get worse. The more absurdity in a religion the more people are going to ridicule it. -_- That is not the way to solve anything.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:00 am
i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone.
and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare
this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise.
this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert").
meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself.
suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe.
with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be.
all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:02 pm
Chieftain Twilight i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone. and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise. this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert"). meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself. suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe. with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be. all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children. >_< That is just disgusting. I will never say that it isn't perverse because it is. -shakes head- That's a different point though. Anyhow, you are right that it IS the job of the parents to teach their children morals & values of life. Unfortunately, most parents do not (at least in this society). We'll have to see what will happen & hope for the best. & please don't swear at me for I'm respecting your opinion & I ask you to respect mine as well. & as for censorship, the only reason I want it around is because of all the sexual implications of the media & all the swearing (it has negative effects, truly). Even if you can block channels, it still somehow gets out, no matter how careful you are. I still ask, why is it around? Freedom of expression? So it's okay to degrade people? Hm... & if we don't stop radicals, how soon will it be until they come to smite us all? Face the issue, don't avert. That's what I say. Feel free to disagree, most people don't believe me anyway. ^^
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:20 pm
Saddest Shade of Kitsune Chieftain Twilight i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone. and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise. this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert"). meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself. suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe. with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be. all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children. >_< That is just disgusting. I will never say that it isn't perverse because it is. -shakes head- That's a different point though. Anyhow, you are right that it IS the job of the parents to teach their children morals & values of life. Unfortunately, most parents do not (at least in this society). We'll have to see what will happen & hope for the best. & please don't swear at me for I'm respecting your opinion & I ask you to respect mine as well. & as for censorship, the only reason I want it around is because of all the sexual implications of the media & all the swearing (it has negative effects, truly). Even if you can block channels, it still somehow gets out, no matter how careful you are. I still ask, why is it around? Freedom of expression? So it's okay to degrade people? Hm... & if we don't stop radicals, how soon will it be until they come to smite us all? Face the issue, don't avert. That's what I say. Feel free to disagree, most people don't believe me anyway. ^^ Supply me, I'd like to know.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:32 pm
Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a question.
Why is it so terrible that Mohamed be depicted? I mean, I get Muslims not doing so, but why is it so terrible? I don't understand.
Please explain it to me.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:30 pm
On the subject of censorship and to no one in particular:
I'm a huge believer in freedom of speech. It lets us be free to express ourselves in the way that we see fit, and I like that.
It's a person's personal responsibility to not seek out things that he or she will find disturbing. And in the case of children, it is the responsibility of their parents.
That said, freedom of speech only works well if it's used responsibly.
The South Park thing was in bad taste. It was not a statement on artistic freedom, it was mocking Islam and trying to get a rise out of radicals.
And it's obvious, because if they weren't searching for it, this thing wouldn't have gotten so much publicity. While a death threat is a death threat, these were a few recently converted Muslims making vague threats on an internet forum, no? And it's the internet. Are death threats not made all the time?
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:19 am
Saddest Shade of Kitsune Chieftain Twilight i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone. and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise. this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert"). meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself. suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe. with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be. all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children. >_< That is just disgusting. I will never say that it isn't perverse because it is. -shakes head- That's a different point though. Anyhow, you are right that it IS the job of the parents to teach their children morals & values of life. Unfortunately, most parents do not (at least in this society). We'll have to see what will happen & hope for the best. & please don't swear at me for I'm respecting your opinion & I ask you to respect mine as well. & as for censorship, the only reason I want it around is because of all the sexual implications of the media & all the swearing (it has negative effects, truly). Even if you can block channels, it still somehow gets out, no matter how careful you are. I still ask, why is it around? Freedom of expression? So it's okay to degrade people? Hm... & if we don't stop radicals, how soon will it be until they come to smite us all? Face the issue, don't avert. That's what I say. Feel free to disagree, most people don't believe me anyway. ^^ i actually am aware of the role of sexuality in Islam, as well as a number of other religions. i rather like the Islamic approach to it. ^_^ i still personally feel that there is no single "right" way to think of sex and sexuality for everyone, and that for some people it is perfectly fine to sleep around, but respect and honesty is always key (and the porn issue is in shades of grey in my opinion xd ). anywho, i will not censor myself, so my responce to being asked to not swear is simply "no". i don't mean to be disrespectful, i am just a potty-mouthed sailor when it comes down to it. xd i reserve my right to speak as dirtily as i want. i have to agree on your remarks about bashing another's prophet to a certain degree. it certainly isn't the way to express minor hypocricies, especially since i can't even think of one thing i disliked or which was inconsistent in everything i have ever read or heard about Muhammad. besides which, it's never fair or Honourable to say things about someone that you don't realy know anything about. however, until they reach some point of hate-crime or terrorism (or similar threatening behavior) it is their right to be as controversial as they wish. i would never think to take away someone's legal rights to do something unless that something was seriously harmful. it's just not the Honourable thing to do. it's one of the things about strict governments that i hate so much. call me an Anarchist, a Libertarian, a Communist. i don't care. i stand by my beliefs.
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:31 pm
SuchSweetSadism Saddest Shade of Kitsune Chieftain Twilight i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone. and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise. this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert"). meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself. suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe. with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be. all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children. >_< That is just disgusting. I will never say that it isn't perverse because it is. -shakes head- That's a different point though. Anyhow, you are right that it IS the job of the parents to teach their children morals & values of life. Unfortunately, most parents do not (at least in this society). We'll have to see what will happen & hope for the best. & please don't swear at me for I'm respecting your opinion & I ask you to respect mine as well. & as for censorship, the only reason I want it around is because of all the sexual implications of the media & all the swearing (it has negative effects, truly). Even if you can block channels, it still somehow gets out, no matter how careful you are. I still ask, why is it around? Freedom of expression? So it's okay to degrade people? Hm... & if we don't stop radicals, how soon will it be until they come to smite us all? Face the issue, don't avert. That's what I say. Feel free to disagree, most people don't believe me anyway. ^^ Supply me, I'd like to know.
Cheiftain has good points. I respect your views & stand by my beliefs as well. Thanks for speaking about the issue with me.
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:44 pm
I Wander_In Error No More SuchSweetSadism Saddest Shade of Kitsune Chieftain Twilight i just cannot accept the idea of censorship ever being good. it is not something that is fair to anyone. and here's a thought, instead of being afraid of hearing something radical or offensive, and trying to hide it or cover it up, why not simply acknowledge it and teach your kids values that you uphold, that you want them to uphold? portray these things that they see as an example of what you find so terrible about it, and explain your reasons to them. teach them moral values, the way a parent is SUPPOSED to ******** do! stare this is what i see so wrong in the world. people being too afraid of topics like sex or controlled substances or prejiduce. the church portrays it as this shameful, nasty thing that is only to be used for procreation, and that you should avoid it because you'll go to hell otherwise. this is backed up by the embarresment and awkwardness with which adults handle the issue (responding like "don't say such filthy words" or "that's too adult for you" or even simply "pervert"). meanwhile, the media and advertisement and cinema all portray some gritty, nasty, sexist, bastardization of the topic. they portray sex as all about the body, the organs, and confusing the emotions of lust (and the act of romantic behavior or desire) with love itself. suddenly, the human body is objectified, and in particular, men are made to feel like they need to prove their sexual potency by the number of girls they can shag, while women are made to feel that they need to keep a man by their side to prove their own worthe. with this being so, kids are often misled into being either sexually suppressed (leading to all kinds of aggressive behavior, or irrational fears and lack of self-worthe), or become victims of peer pressure, devaluing sex and turning it into some kind of disgusting parody of what it should be. all this can be prevented if parents learned to just talk to their kids about it, openly and without fear or awkwardness. parents should teach their kids about sex, as soon as they start hitting puberty. the same is true for any other thing they want their kids to be mature and responcible about. it is the parents job to instill lessons and values in their children. >_< That is just disgusting. I will never say that it isn't perverse because it is. -shakes head- That's a different point though. Anyhow, you are right that it IS the job of the parents to teach their children morals & values of life. Unfortunately, most parents do not (at least in this society). We'll have to see what will happen & hope for the best. & please don't swear at me for I'm respecting your opinion & I ask you to respect mine as well. & as for censorship, the only reason I want it around is because of all the sexual implications of the media & all the swearing (it has negative effects, truly). Even if you can block channels, it still somehow gets out, no matter how careful you are. I still ask, why is it around? Freedom of expression? So it's okay to degrade people? Hm... & if we don't stop radicals, how soon will it be until they come to smite us all? Face the issue, don't avert. That's what I say. Feel free to disagree, most people don't believe me anyway. ^^ Supply me, I'd like to know.
Cheiftain has good points. I respect your views & stand by my beliefs as well. Thanks for speaking about the issue with me.it's my pleasure, i wanna let you know that i am grateful for you putting up with my debate as well. smile i think we've both gained alot from it. i will say that my views definitely stem from being brought up as an American, and Southern. i have gained a certain love for my Nation now, despite hating all the things that are wrong with it. i guess i've come to realize that it isn't america that i hate so much, it is the disease that America has. Liberty and Equality. these are the Guiding and Defining Principles that my Nation was built on. these Principles are no longer followed like they are claimed to be. that's why i stand so strongly by my Causes, and why i am working so hard to spread the Libertarian Socialist Party as a Political Movement throughout America. i am starting local of course. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press are American inventions, and all Americans should be Proud of it.
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:45 am
Tiina Brown So, do you mean that all Muslims that follows the Sunnah and Hadiths of the Prophet, will always follow them to the letter? I heard, that Islam at least used to have a tradition of discussion and re-interpretation. Are that gone? If so, your fananatics has won your discussions ...... I'm not a fanatic, you dont even know me. I'm left gobsmacked you'd have the gall to say that! Yes we follow them as closely as we can. That is the point of religion, to follow what role models they had. When he died, he said "I have left for you the Qur'an and my example" We dont need to "re-interpret" his example was written in Arabic, all it needed was translation & understand of the correct translation.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:45 pm
Call Me Apple Tiina Brown So, do you mean that all Muslims that follows the Sunnah and Hadiths of the Prophet, will always follow them to the letter? I heard, that Islam at least used to have a tradition of discussion and re-interpretation. Are that gone? If so, your fananatics has won your discussions ...... I'm not a fanatic, you dont even know me. I'm left gobsmacked you'd have the gall to say that! Yes we follow them as closely as we can. That is the point of religion, to follow what role models they had. When he died, he said "I have left for you the Qur'an and my example" We dont need to "re-interpret" his example was written in Arabic, all it needed was translation & understand of the correct translation. i dunno, Apple, i still think Interpretation and Re-Interpretation extremely important. and as for my personal belief about Culture effecting how any given religion is practiced in a given Nation, that plays a huge part in Interpretation as well. it would explain, for example, why in america, Muslim women can wear a hoodie instead of a Burqa and it not be considered Haram. but in Iraq or Palistine, it would be Haram to not wear a Burqa. in america, it's the general idea behind why the Burqa is worn, that it can be replaced freely with any other article of clothing which does the same job. this being a product of the american idea of Individual Liberty. while in the Middle East, the Burqa is important because it is a Cultural Tradition. neither is wrong, but each are a different Cultural Interpretation. that should realy be taken into account.
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Reply
